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AdviceCapture 2.x

Long glass wall1106

360Verbeelding private msg quote post Address this user
Hi all,

how do you work with this. Today one of my scans included a long hall divided by a glass wall. One side there was the hall space and parallel to the hall divided with the glass wall was a fitness room. I shoot the hall and the fitness room. Do you mark the glass at the hall side facing inside as well as the glass wall at the fitness room facing inside. Our just one side of the glass wall.

Hope you understand what i am trying to say. 😜

Grtz Rene.
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Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Rene @360Verbeelding

Trying processing without marketing the window. Sometimes, less is more.

If it does not process like you expect it to, then mark and re-process.

Matterport does not charge for re-processing a model.

Please do post it to this thread (and let us know if you did mark the window or did not mark the window).

Best,

Dan
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360Verbeelding private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Dan. Thanks. MP processed the file and it came back compleetly messed up. Its a long hall way at the end is the pool. Now the pool shows up in the middle of the hall way. Open doors are blocked. I don't know what went wrong.

This is the link.

Grtz Rene.

https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=xdk7HK5ag5Z
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Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@360Verbeelding

1. Please show us a screen grab of the mini-map from your iPad so we can see the scan locations and scan numbers. please a close-up view of just the affected area.

2. Please try marking the glass and re-reprocessing

3. please send Matterport Customer Support a link to this thread-post and ask them for their thoughts too.

Sounds like the stitching of the images may have gotten confused because of the lack of common points as a result of the glass. There are likely related MUG Forum thread posts on this topic.

Thanks,

Dan
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360Verbeelding private msg quote post Address this user
Hi All,
Sorry for the delay. hereby the completely meshed up capture of the file. Doors that are open are blocked. Rooms are replaced. Swimmingpool is at the end of a hall way. Now it sits in the middle of the hall way. How do you think i can fix this.

This is the link, https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=PjE7dwkbB9S

i asked Glenn at MP. He send me a amazing reply telling me everything that might have gone wrong. I would like you guys to get this info as well but i think is to long to put in as a treat. So sent me a suggestion so i can share this amazing info.

Grtz Rene.
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Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Please post. Length is fine. Dan
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360Verbeelding private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Dan. If you nean lenghr of gasl wsy. Thats appr. 40 meters. The beginning of the hall there the hall and fitness room ate srpersted with a glass wall. Thus goes over in a wall thats the same on both sides with doors and arches. Thanks for your replay. Grtz Rene.
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Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @360Verbeelding
i asked Glenn at MP. He send me a amazing reply telling me everything that might have gone wrong. I would like you guys to get this info as well but i think is to long to put in as a treat. So sent me a suggestion so i can share this amazing info.

Grtz Rene.


Can you add Glenn's reply below?
Post 8 • IP   flag post
360Verbeelding private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Dan, this is the mentioned email with Glenn from MP.

Hey Rene,

Hope this finds you well. Thanks for writing in.

it's 2:40am and I'm just up for water but will check with engineering tomorrow.

The factors I see a good number of ceiling-mounted cameras (likely lit with infrared led illumination), repetitive geometry, a few windows that could be marked, a stray window marking on the stairs. Did you have a scan or scans that showed up somewhere other than where they were supposed to be? OR showed up in the right place but other things changed when that scan puck was placed?

I'll watch for your response and check with engineering on this tomorrow when folks are in.

Talk with you soon!

Best,

Glenn
Matterport Suport

Hi, yesterday we have made a large scan of a big spa in a hotel. I uploaded the file and today i got the showcase back. nothing ads up. All the rooms are in the wrong space. You can't walk tru. Open doors are blocked. So what went wrong, how can this made right. Its impossible for us to do this scan over. The situation at the location is this, very long hallway, Starting with the reception, then fitness room
then along the hall different treatment rooms and al the way at the end the swimmingpool. Thes swimmingpool is now located somewhere in the middle of the hallway. So what to do..

This is the file
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=izFHH5gVEm4

Grtz Rene

This email is a service from Matterport Support. Delivered by Zendesk[NZL7EO-5EDJ]

aan Matterport
Wauw Glenn

Thats a answer. Amazing. Thank you for all the work. As i read true all your remarks i keep thinking did i do all these things wrong. And i must say no. I didn't. The only door i had problems with was the door at the pool. This was a automated sliding door. All the other things i did for 85%.
While reading this i think you almost telling me that its impossible to make a good scan of this space. This is a presentation job. A 50 lications job depents on the result of this job 😁.

Question, would it be possible to split up all the scanned rooms so i can show all the rooms individually like being separate showcases. This because i know the reception, fitness room, pool, hamam, treatment rooms, relax room, beach room where all aligned scans. Maybe this is the way to save the job.

Its is almost impossible to redo the whole job. For me its a 2.5 hour drive and a 3.5 hour job. The need to close the whole spa, no personnel, no cleaning and no guests. I hope that their is a solution to splitting everything up. Maybe Its never done before but please try.

Next week i am going to scan a ride in a amusement park and the factory that produces the animation figurines for those parks. Its not getting simpler. I am not the regular 3D real-estate photographer. But you figured this out by now i think.

For a other client i am building miniature 360 videocamera so we can shoot 3D images for VR purposes of a maquette.

So lots of interesting things to do 😜

Grtz. Rene


Rene Ribbens.
360 Verbeelding

Glenn
Glenn (Matterport Support)
Dec 22, 11:46 AM

Hey there,

Thanks for the note back. Hope you're having a good one.

In this instance the model is not salvageable on our end. Though it's less than ideal. I'd recommend rescanning altogether.

I hate to say that, especially knowing how much work was put into this, but in the case of gross and probably multiple misalignments, it's really all that's left.

The main thing I'd do- due to the repetitive geometry and the IR cameras - would be to watch the capture map very carefully for misaligned scans.

If you have even on misaligned san, it can mess up everything after and some of what comes before.

Though rare in scanning in general, usually seen in sunlight, outdoors, very large spaces, repetitive geometry, etc. Again I might have imagined some trouble aligning with the IR cams too.

In all cases, on any re-do, I would keep a close watch on the capture app. If you experience misalignment (either in the form of a scan puck showing up anywhere other than where it should have been or in the form of the scan showing up in the correct location, but a wall's representation in the capture map moved, a straight lint on the floor bent, etc) take these steps before proceeding:

1. Delete the misaligned scan (say it was hypothetically scan 10, you'd delete hypothetical scan 10).
2. Delete hypothetical scan 9 (even if everything about it looks normal - it's this scan a good part of alignment of hypothetical scan 10 was based on. Just deleting hypothetical scan 10 will not clear the trouble.
3. Place the camera back over hypothetical scan 8 and do another scan there (you can turn one of them off in Workshop after upload - don't delete hypothetical scan 8 just add another scan there in addition),
4. Proceed forward with scanning.

With that said, on any re-scan of future scan, please bear in mind that every doorway you mean to move through (even glass ones) should be seen as open in the view of all scans and seen as closed by no scans. Many Matterport users cary with a bag of rubber doorstops to prepare a space (in case there are spring-loaded or otherwise not apt to stay open) and I've hear of string/fishing filament used as well - for instance for a door that a rubber doorstop wouldn't help. ) I say this because you may get away with gambling otherwise, and perhaps more gambling with glass doors, but eventually the gamble won't work. Recommend to never scan a door open and closed.

Please be sure the outside of the rotating camera's body is never closer then 1.5 feet from anything. If you picture a cylinder the width of the camera body, running from floor to ceiling and keep that cylinder from being closer then 1.5 feet (about half a meter) from anything, it could help give best results/be best practices. For this reason recommend to scan once before (even if that is a middle of a hallways scan centered on the doorway) and once after any doorway - instead of in the middle of the doorframe, for best results.

Recommend to scan the inside of any room entered thoroughly. Thorough scanning of rooms helps.

Recommend to please be careful to hide, or else walk in circles behind the camera - saw you (or someone) in at least one scan, a pair of feet in another

One thing that seems to make a difference in the way models looks is the symmetry of scans. For what it's worth - especially in hallways - recommend bring a physical tape measure with to go from wall to center of center tripod pole to remain centered while moving down a hallway

Not sure what to recommend about the infrared cameras - small and large - over the doors might see if they will power them down (not just have the camera off but power to the infrared LEDs they use to illuminate?) Might make sure the infrared sauna was powered down, mark mirrors and sorry to belabor the point but have every door you mean to move through seen as open in all scans, which probably means going through before scanning and making sure all the ones you'll want open are open and going to say that way .

I really hope this helps! Attaching some pictures I took in the model and annotated.

Wish I could have fixed or gotten this fixed for you! But if you re-do, hopefully this will help!

Please let me/us know how it goes and if you have any other questions!

Best,

Glenn
Matterport Support

Please find all the user guides here:

https://matterportsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/search?utf8=✓&query=user+guide&commit=Search

Starting position/screenshots

Here're the steps for screenshots/starting points:

https://matterportsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209012357-3-Set-the-starting-location-in-Workshop

Floorplans:

We do have a floorplan creation service coming, we also have this overview of some starting points I hope will be helpful if you'll be making your own:

Please go this this site (http://matterport.com/faq/), scroll down to "Other features" and then to "Can I create floorplans from my models", then check out the video overview on floorplan creation. For reference, I personally would make at least one real-world measurement in each property, then use our Workshop measurement to compare. I don't know that it will be 100 percent concordance, but close.

More is better!:

The scans you do are each adding to the underlying 3D mesh, the closer your scans and the more you use best practices - the tighter the underlying model may be.

Mark as you go:

Marking Windows and Mirrors as you go can help with alignment. As soon as you can see a window or mirror in the minimap/floorplan in the Capture App on your iPad, pinch and zoom in and mark it with the appropriate marking tool (window or mirror, paying attention to which direction the marker is facing). You can mark them about 6 inches wider(to either side) than the actual object being marked, just as long as that extra area doesn't cut into a wall, extend into a doorway/passage, nor overlap other markings. Mark windows and mirrors as though they're on the inside surface of the wall you're marking them on.

Not too close:

Best not to be more than 18 inches minimum from anything. It's understandable for a seasoned photographer to want to scan from a corner to catch as much of the size/grandeur of a given room, but this is not best-practices for your Matterport 3D Models because:

1.it can cause increased artifacts adding inaccurate data to the model.

in VR (which you never know - you may finding yourself wanting to convert your models to in the near future!) it creates a sense of hitting one's head on a wall/door/ what have you.
standing that close to a wall can be an uncomfortable feeling for someone going through the tour.
Be as thorough as you can!

Please bear in mind that the people touring your model may want to do the very same things as they would if they were there - walk all around a room, walk to each nightstand on either side of a bed, go all the way into a walk in closet, stand in front of each sink in a bathroom, etc. It's hard to go wrong with doing a full body of scans - each adds to the underlying 3D model and each can be "unchecked" in Workshop so it's ring doesn't show to a user, but the data in contributes to the model will still be in place.

Before and just after doorways, not in the middle of them:

To minimize artifacts in your scans, best to do a scan just before a doorway and one just after, but none in right in the middle of the doorway - reason is the "not too close" idea above.

Open/closed:

When scanning a property some real estate agents will remove all the doors in the house first. it's not necessary, but make sure every door you mean to move through is open in every single scan that can see it because anything moving - so open, then closed, then open, etc can create a impassible barrier and affect the quality and integrity of the 3D mesh. Some folks bring along doorstops, in case there're wiley doors than mightn't stay open otherwise.

Find a reference point:

When making a series of scans - whether capturing a matrix of scans in a large room or making one's way down a hallway - recommend always finding a point of reference to use when lining up your tripod/camera and moving from scan to scan so that in terms of aesthetics: it will look as symmetrical as possible. Doesn't hurt to bring a measuring tape.

Can't get past a mirror? Try this:

If you run into a situation where you're having trouble proceeding, say where there are a lot of mirrors there are a few things you might try:

(this is only for if if 1-4 didn't do it) Put a plant by the end of the mirror on the door that's making trouble (the challenge in this? All the scans that can see this area would need to be redone (make a duplicate, delete and redo them to see the plant in all scans that spot in the duplicate)to see the plant as always being there. Then still do the other preceding steps below.
Drop the tripod legs and tripod pole to their very lowest most collapsed (with the short legs still spread) height, with the camera as low as possible try to scan past the tricky area. If that doesn't work proceed at short intervals from before the door to get past the door. If scans beyond that won't work, try scans to the side of the last one that worked then populate the area with low scans.
Once that groundwork has been set: raise the camera up (make sure to scan regular height scans as though the low ones never existed, don't mistake the low scans as usable for your tour)and you can usually proceed without trouble.

Shorter scan intervals
Robust scans in the area before the doorway that's making trouble
Mark the mirrors (carefully and accurately- pinch-and-zoom all the way in to try to place the marking just on the face of the mirror and only the width of the actual, maybe a dash more but not overlapping other markings, not too far to the sides)
The only thing I might add there is to check for other sources of trrrrrouble, like a sunlight, glare through unconvered windows.

Maybe add a couple of low scans in the area preceding the doorway as well.

6.Once you've done the low, low scans, raise the tripod/camera up to it's normal level, scan through the area as though the low scans had never been done, then after uploading the model you can uncheck ("hide" in the new Workshop) the low scans in Workshop - no one will ever see them in Showcase - but the model (and the dollhouse) will be better for their data being in the mix, plus they'll often get you through.

*Please remember! if you forget to do normal height scans after getting through a tough area with low, low ones, you won't have any usable scans for your tour!!! Must, must remember to add regular height scans once the low ones have paved the way.

Attempting outdoor scanning:

Your Matterport 3D Camera projects and reads infrared patterns to asses depth. Because of this, sunlight, reflective surfaces and reflected sunlight can affect the quality of your models. As a result, outdoor scanning is not supported. In the Capture App User Guide we advise closing blinds, drapes, shades and using internal lighting.

That said, we know some users will still attempt to scan outdoors or in bright sunlight -- even though we can't support it, and problems may arise. So, a few tips:

Outdoor last. Do any outdoor scanning last, where possible. Outdoor scanning can cause alignment problems in any nearby scans in that model. By scanning last, you can always remove, redo or hide trouble areas without affecting the rest of the model.
Only at when the sun is below the horizon. If you decide to do outdoor scanning, do so only only when the sun is below the horizon. But where there's still available light. This is a smaller window of time, so, depending on how much outdoor scanning your planning, you may need to plan a second visit to finish the outdoor segment.
Shorter distances. Use smaller scan intervals. Move no more than 5 feet maximum, less if you hit problems.
Again, outdoor scanning is not supported, and you may hit problems as a result. Here are a few examples, show the range of results:

Blackberry Farms park scanned (in partial shade) along a long path - uploaded fine, but the whole path reduced to a cluster of rings at the viewer's feet: totally unusable and unfixable.
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=NbPAt893K56

Blackberry Farms park scanned (in partial shade) along a long path - uploaded fine but so completely destroyed by sun that there is no means to navigate but to go to Dolhouse or Floorpan view(which are crazy looking!) and click on some other areas blindly): totally unusable and unfixable.
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=whh4s1AbVK1

Blackberry Farms park scanned along a long path - only at full dusk - usable.
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=fJwBXTzHE2q

Hi Glenn

Sorry i din't think about the differents in Global time 😳 About the IR cans your right. Did not noticed then but now you mentioned it i see what you mean. The stray window i didn't mark because i shoot at both sides of the glass. The sane as the long window dividing the hallway and the fitness room. But i can always do this.
The strange ting is while scanning everything was done in continuous order son didn't see things go wrong. When i was finished i closed the app went home and opend it back again to send the files to MP. There i noticed for the first time that scan-position numbers didn't add up. I had the same thing with a shoot of a big supermarket. Some numbers of the scans didn't ad up with their positions. Their was a difference between the scan layout and the actual positions in the Dollhouse. In this case it didn't matter so i left it that way. But niw its a major problem. I hope you can work with this.

Grtz. Rene
Team 360 Verbeelding.

Glenn (Matterport Support)
Dec 22, 2:55 PM

Hey Rene,

Hope you're having a good one. Thanks for the note back. I'd call but it's close to midnight where you are, I think. So I'll do my best to write it out.

My intention was not to criticize, again I fully appreciate the time and care that goes into doing a model, but to help you get even better and by using best practices, always have the best shot at any work you do!

What I'm saying about doors is that you may get away with gambling on glass doors more often, but even eventually it can sting. With solid doors you already have a number here that have formed full doors in the mesh - that will block access to a room on the other side and no way to fix that but to either make a duplicate and delete all the scans from that duplicate that see the door as closed, or to make a duplicate, delete the "Door-closed" scans and rescan the area.

You're the boss of how you scan but exactly to minimize the number of times you'll need to go back and redo parts of a model I'm suggesting to always scan so that every scan seems every door you mean to move through as open, no scans see any door you mean to move through as closed. I personally have scanned full glass shower stalls with a door closed and gotten away with it - but knew I was gambling, was close to home, and it wasn't for a paying gig - the reflection can make mesh. I wouldn't take that risk with a door framed in metal, with so much reflection going in, really with any door but that's up to you.

I think it's completely possible to make a viable scan in this space: I would use the suggestions I've made to up changes of the best looking and move navigable model possible in doing to.

It's a good idea, a good practice to keep an eye on where the scans land, only use the procedure I mentioned if a misalignment is found.

You might make a duplicate of the model (press "edit" in the upper right, tap the model to select it, press "duplicate" in the upper left) and delete misaligned scans, uploading (You aren't charged additional processing fees for uploading duplicates of an already processed model) to see if that got it, but because there are likely to be many misaligned scans, and so much that was shot/aligned from after misalignment that I personally would just start over.

I included pictures of the same door open and closed, as well as a view of that same door in the mesh view to help illustrate why were a door's been opened/closed it may no longer be possible to enter such a room without going back to re-scan

For your question about breaking the model up: that's a great idea and you can totally experiment with that by making as many duplicates as you like (In your Capture App, where you're looking at the models and the "+" icon to make new ones? Press "Edit" in the upper right, tap on the model you want to copy, press "Duplicate" in the upper left and in a short time a copy of the model will appear to the upper left with the word "copy" appended to it's title. You'll need to do this as many times as you'd like copies. I'd recommend to never delete anything form this (or any) original model (except misaligned scans in the course of scanning as we've discussed), but rather to delete from the duplicates.

You can delete as may scans say you like, and/or use a "trim" marking on the duplicates to "just away" the surrounding area to isolate and make area copies of as many areas as you like with in the model, then upload them. Again you aren't charged any additional processing fees for uploading/processing duplicates of an already processed model. So if you make 20 duplicates of different rooms, for example? You're good.

Awesome that you're going for unique creative scanning opportunities.

Okay for the ride creator scan:

Things to bear in mind: The Matterport Camera projects and reads infrared patters to assess depth and build the mesh, they underlaying model (which you can see in the dollhouse, in the Mesh View in Workshop, etc). Sunlight can wipe this out (Please see the examples at the end of my "tips list" appended to each email for more on this) - for this reason we do no support outdoor scanning.

So my advice would be if you scanning outdoors to only do it in the hour or so of light before the sun rises over the horizon, or in the hour or so of light after the sun has gone completely below the horizon. Even if this means going back to scan on different days: it is your single best shot: clouds are a gamble, shade is a gamble, etc. Just like doors, gambling can mean having to go back.

Also, your Matterport Camera will create the mesh for maybe 15-20 feet. Depending how large a ride is, if you mean to capture portions of the ride above that height, you'll need to find a safe!!! and creative way to capture above ground level to build the rest of the mesh.

Also your Matterport Camera is designed for capturing environments, versus being designed for capturing objects and won't capture anything smaller than 1.5 inches. For a best shot at you must be at least 1.5 feet/.5 meters from any object minimum (from the outside of the rotating camera's body) to get best results.

This is as true with plumbing/piping/perhaps some of the support structure of a roller coaster? (Or not, it may all be fine) as it is on the bannister of a stairway: if too close there can be glitches. If a proper distance away: you have the best shot at a capturing that railing but in the 3D Mesh, in the dollhouse - spindles 1.5 inches or more will have the best chance of being captured.

Also, in case you mean to capture a roller-coaster in motion, for instance. The Matterport Camera will show a blue-ish blur around anything in motion in the 2D area. So if someone runs in front of the camera while scanning, you'd probably see a blur of person and blue (a really cool looking blue, but just saying.) So my recommendation would be to scan the ride while it is static.

If you mean to provide a multiple format presentation to your roller-coaster client, you might combine video footage (shot with drones, with steadicam counter-weight stabilized hand-held video camera, as well as screen recordings of keyboard navigated Matterport Showcases, perhaps set to music, with titles, etc in something like iMovie, Final Cut Pro X, or Premiere as an adjunct to the Matterport Showcase, to create the most compelling overall project.

I'm trying to look out for you and prepare you for success with the best information I can.

Including the unsupported, unofficial manual flythrough video tips list below, as well as general tips.

Hope this is helpful - Please let me/us know if you have other questions - looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Hope your Holidays are awesome as well!

Best,

Glenn
Matterport Support


As you know, we don't have any official support creating fly-through videos but I could share what I personally would do? If you have a Mac you can put something together pretty easily with Quicktime, iMovie, iTunes etc - if a Windows PC the same time of tools may exist but you'd need to research them.

On a Mac, screen capture recordings of the specified area (for instance the Matterport 3D Showcase can be made into a fly-through movie using Quicktime (which is free)).

While we do have a "Guided Tour" feature in Workshop but this is an alternative means of manually creating your own screen recording of touring through Showcase where you control the movement using your computer keyboard:

Have a Matterport 3D Showcase Model on hand and ready to explore (you could practice on this right now using one of the Matterport 3D showcases in the "Try it" section of our home page matterport.com, if you wanted to?)

Open Quicktime> File menu>New Screen Recording>Press the red record button> Size a selection window to fit the area you want to record (recommend minimize the property info window in the upper left and draw a rectangle that avoids all the overlays)> select "Start Recording" (in the selected area.) * hint: if you mean to use the floor-selection button, you might exclude that area of the Showcase while recording some videos to the mouse movement/blue ring won't make an appearance in your movie clips, but you can still deploy the impressive floor change transitions.
Navigate using the directional keys on your computer keyboard, as well as it's "W, A(slide left),S,D(slide right)” AND "I,J,K,L" keys (it might take a little practice but you can get to where you can "drive" pretty smoothly in no time) in the upper right of your screen you'll see a circular record icon - clicking on it when you're done will stop recording - save the movie that shows up on-screen at that point.
4b. You could alternatively or additionally use the screen recording to capture the new Hightlight Reel's Slideshow and Guided Tours features for video clip content as well.

You could import these such short clips perhaps interspersed with a few drone flyovers? Edit them in iMovie, Final Cut Pro, or their PC equivalents (I can't say because I haven't used it but heard that Powerdirector by Cyberlink might be good? This is not a recommendation, just saying) drop in a great sound track, transitions, titles, and narration if desired and potentially come up with something amazing.
Export the finished movie and add to your arsenal of tools, including the Matterport 3D Showcase to help create an engaging experience for your customers. Such a compelling finished movie could then be uploaded your or your customers' website(s), to YouTube,Vimeo, etc., if desired.

I think that this is everything
Grtz Rene.
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