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Confidential tours - HELP!6888

tomasdunbar private msg quote post Address this user
I know that this is a hot topic on this forum but I have not come across many solutions.

We have met with a lot of companies in the engineering and pharma industry who absolutely love Matterport and see endless possibilities with it, but they simply cannot use the system because they can't host it on their own servers or have an offline version. We have got around this a couple of times but the bigger the company (and the more opportunity for bigger and better deals) the more concerns they have around the privacy and hosting of the tours and the deal always falls through because of it.

I see that Cupix will be launching a confidential solution sometime in the future. Is there any solutions out there that anyone is using at the moment?

A solution that will allow our clients,

- To host it on their own servers.
- have a fully immersive walk through (someway similar to Matterport).
- Dollhouse and/or floor plan view.
- Ability to add in hot spots (similar to Mattertags)
Post 1 IP   flag post
rzphotoman private msg quote post Address this user
I'm curious on how you were able to offer an offline version in the past. I have been asked that question a number of times and I had no solution.
Post 2 IP   flag post
tomasdunbar private msg quote post Address this user
@rzphotoman I was never able to offer an offline version, sorry I was not very clear.

We have got around some projects by setting up clients as a collaborator and keeping tours private but this usually only satisfies the small fish or means that we can only capture some areas of a facility and not areas that may contain sensitive information.

I cannot seem to find any offline solution from another provider.

I would have no problem paying Matterport 10 years hosting fees for a 3D model upfront if they aloud me the option of an offline model or hosting elsewhere!
Post 3 IP   flag post
GlennTremain private msg quote post Address this user
why not have them have their own matterport account?
Post 4 IP   flag post
Cupix Director
of Sales
scott_cupix private msg quote post Address this user
@tomasdunbar - Yes, Cupix will be releasing it's offline solution shortly. I know there are quite a few people who are excited about this and have been patiently waiting. You'd take 1,000 5Mpixel, 10Mpixel, 25Mpixel or 75Mpixel Panos, upload to Cupix and then you have a tour that you can export to an offline format, with full walkthroughs, integrated floor plans, integrated 3D BIM models, 3D "doll view", 3D hot spots and pin. Taking 1,000 panos in a facility will cover about 100,000 sqft (9,200sqm), so if your facility is say 500,000sqft then just upload more panos and you'd still be done before happy hour if you use the method @pcollart recommends.

The WGAN forum now supports Cupix Tours, so here's a comparison between 25Mpix panos from a $300 and 50Mpixel panos from a $3,000 camera. The interval between each capture is anywhere from 4-20 seconds and the spacing for this sample is deliberately short. For a larger facility you can see some quality examples from this or other thread:

More of an open but related question: How much actual utility is there in a 3D mesh "doll view". For example, when I look at this mesh from Matterport, I don't see it being more useful than a floor plan. A floor plan helps you figure out layout and lets someone pin-point a room, a wall or equipment in a facility directly from the floor plan. Here's the first example I found of a space >20,000sqft (1,800sqm):

Doll View:

360 Pano View:

I find the doll house view a lot less useful here, it's not something that I'm going to want to measure from and 1/2 of the geometry in the room isn't really there it's just colored that way. The pano is clear and crisp and from my monitor, it's really the pano that matters.

Main point is any tour you create with Cupix will be available in an offline version coming up soon. We'll try to make a post on the forum when it's available.
Post 5 IP   flag post
immersivespaces private msg quote post Address this user
@scott_cupix I think practically, you are correct, but the dollhouse view is what impresses clients initially. It's more of a "wow" factor than practical or useful. Remembering, of course, that the primary customer is still real estate agents looking to sell properties.
Post 6 IP   flag post
rzphotoman private msg quote post Address this user
I'v tried to make a simple scan of 2 rooms in my house using the Insta360 One and Cubix. I could not figure out how to make it work. The quality of the images were poor and I couldn't get the rooms connected. I got frustrated and gave up.

To be fair, I have very limited experience with the Insta 360 and less with Cubix. I only bought the camera to try it with Cubix. I'm sure if I keep playing with it I could make it work but to me, from what I understand so far, it's more time consuming than using the Matterport. Having an offline version of a model interests me, just not sure how much time I want to put into making it work.

Maybe I just need to see a well done training video about Cubix...haven't found one yet.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Cupix Director
of Sales
scott_cupix private msg quote post Address this user
Give it another shot and don't take a photo of your forehead. Check this tutorial if you need help but it's quite easy as many can vouch. If you are shooting two rooms you should capture at about 3-4 photos in each room (no more than 10) and take 2 photos under the doorway.

Here's a tour by my 4 year old. Dad uploaded the photos, but my son (Arthur) took all the photos and moved the tripod. This is the result.

Post 8 IP   flag post
rzphotoman private msg quote post Address this user
@scott_cupix Well you've confirmed that I'm not as smart as a 4 yr old...already knew that...but the issue of the quality of the photos still exists. It appears that using a low end 360 camera like the Insta360 one will not yield the results needed for any high end clients. Just my opinion.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Cupix Director
of Sales
scott_cupix private msg quote post Address this user
Well you better give it a try to confirm my suspicion. Joking aside, if you are a photographer and know the balance between exposure, noise, ISO and HDR or averaging you can put this knowledge to practice. For starters, to get the most out of your camera you'd want to turn-off action-modes and switch to a mode more suitable for real-estate photography. Not all low-end cameras are tuned for action-adventure photography and videography like the Insta360 One; some just focus on taking crisp photos. The Insta One would be a fair choice for capturing the large spaces tomas described.

If quality means rich, pretty, high resolution pictures, your clients will be wowed by full frame 360 panos. But to be fair, certain inexpensive low-cost 36- cameras in the right hands will probably meet quality needs.
Post 10 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user

It's likely that the Insta360 One will have a firmware upgrade for HDR. I have this camera. It's easy to change the ISO, Shutter Speed and Aperture.

One of the reasons that you (eventually) will the Insta360 One is interval shooting (every 5 seconds, for example) and video shooting that mashes up nicely with CUPIX. (Yes. You can walk a space with video set to 2 seconds time-lapse, for example.

Plus, when you are ready to upgrade to the Insta360 Pro, it's likely that the workflow is the same as the Insta360 One.

BTW, I could imagine some new and/or upgraded 360º camera announcements at the 2018 Google Street View Summit later this month in San Francisco. I will be there covering the Summit for the WGAN Community.


Post 11 IP   flag post
tomasdunbar private msg quote post Address this user
@GlennTremain Having their own Matterport account still doesn't allow them to host on their own servers or have it offline which is the main problem.

@scott_cupix Sounds great. You will have me on board straight away. Any time frame? It would be great if I could start selling the concept of the offline viewer now and then have a few projects ready to go once it is released.

The Dollhouse view is not necessary but it is a great sales tool to wow people.

We will probably test a couple of 360 camera to see what we think works best but the Insta360 seems to be the one to go for at this time.
Post 12 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user

This WGAN discussion may be helpful:

Insta360 One Versus Ricoh Theta V Versus Xiaomi Mi Sphere Versus GoPro Fusion

CUPIX has a Camera Recommendation list here.


Post 13 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Originally Posted by @rzphotoman
Maybe I just need to see a well done training video about Cubix...haven't found one yet.

CUPIX Head of Product Strategy Paul Collart (@pcollart) - whom appeared on this WGAN-TV Show - will be back on WGAN-TV to do a CUPIX how to shoot 40,000 SQ FT before lunchtime video. A lot of 'focus' on walking a space with a 360º camera mounted to a hard hat using interval shooting and time-lapse video shooting. (date of this episode of WGAN-TV TBD) Paul is also working on a WGAN Forum post - a parts list - and instructions for mounting a 360º Camera to a hard hat. What makes the magic happen is that CUPIX uses photogrammetry and videogrammetry to create 3D models with any 360º Camera


The following graphic - from this WGAN Forum discussion - is telling: you can capture 10-16 times faster with any 360º camera mashed up with the CUPIX platform. This enables progress report 3D Tours: shoot the same construction site every week, for example

Originally Posted by @DanSmigrod

Lastly, what's a good estimate of the total SF that could be captured per hour and per day with most cameras and Cupix platform.

[name redacted]

RESPONSE: You can take panos (360 photos) or panormaic video (360 video) and upload it to Cupix to create the tour. In outdoor spaces, it's easy to cover a lot of space fast. Anecdotally on 2 occasions I captured roughly 500,000sqft of the outdoor Stanford Mall in Palo Alto in about 2 hours using panos (360 photos). For indoor spaces like 2-story multi-floor construction in the Bay Area of California, we've done quite a bit of testing and are experiencing capture rates of roughly 25K - 50K sqft /hour.

For non North Americans, this translates as follows:
Outdoor space as fast as 250,000 sf or 23,000 sqm per hour.
Indoor construction at approximately 25,000 sf or 2,300 sqm per hour.

Using panoramic video instead of photos the capture speed can increase by 50% - 100% faster.

This was again covered in some depth in this wgan tv episode:


It's great to have so many camera and platform options. This way, you can pick the right camera/platform for the project.


Post 14 IP   flag post
tomasdunbar private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod Very helpful Dan. Thanks!
Post 15 IP   flag post
mori private msg quote post Address this user
A option we use for this is the Indoor Viewer of NavVis:

But of course this is another pricetag range than Matterport.
Otherwise you need to do it yourself with a self hosting tour software or development kit:

Hope there will be some news at IVRPA Tokio end of may:
Post 16 IP   flag post
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