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Realvision

Matterport versus Toursler (Which and Why)351

WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@Bryn thank you for the details.

Can you elaborate on "you shoot" and what gear?

For example, before Matterport, our photography services included shooting 360-degree photo spheres using a DSLR, fish-eye lens and a special rotator on a tripod that made it easy to shoot 3 Bracketed shoots every 60-degrees.
Is this this your work-flow too?

Post production was very labor intensive using at least three different software solutions. Sounds like you may upload the 6 or 18 images per sphere? And, that you are careful to always shoot line of site so they can be connected?

For the floor plans, do you take any measurements or somehow they are created for you simply from the photography that you upload?

There are under $1,000 360-degree 1-click cameras coming out (in one search, google: panono and 360cam and bubblecam). Would theses spherical cameras be compatible with Toursler?

Thanks,

Dan
Post 26 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
Bryn, when I spoke with the group in Canada some while ago they informed me that I would need to have a Canon 60D and add some firmware/application to the camera which would enable them to know where the camera was placed so they could easily stitch the pano's together. is this still the case?

Another question can you eliminate the arrows and just have the circles on the floor much like the MP SC?

Thanks
Gary
Post 27 IP   flag post
DoyleRealtor private msg quote post Address this user
I actually sold my Matterport camera and have been hiring Bryn (Architech3di) locally to do Toursler for all of my listings. The feedback from consumers has been very positive, we're finding that it is easier to navigate. For real estate agents the included professional photos and floor plans is a great value. Previously we were doing these 3 activities separately, I would do the matterport scan & measurements myself but still had to hire a professional photographer.

As far as I know this isn't something an agent like myself could buy for $4,500 to do on my own but after looking at value of my time, and the monthly cost of hosting matterport models it made sense to outsource this.

I've also experienced the Beta VR from both companies and am very impressed with both.

Matterport dollhouse view is unique, which isn't currently offered by toursler. So that and being able to do the scans myself were only things I gave up when I switched.
Post 28 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@DoyleRealtor Thanks! Wow. They are working on VR too.

Others Matterpeeps that want to compare the viewing experience - including navigation - of Toursler to MP?

Dan
Post 29 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
The following eBlast was sent by Toursler on Monday, 8 June 2015.

Subject: Toursler Newsletter #1 - Introduction

Hello!

Thanks for your interest in working with Toursler! I'm sure that you have questions about the equipment, process and costs.

I'd like to open with a comparison of Toursler and the next most comparable platform, shot in the same space under similar lighting conditions. This footage was graciously provided to us by our early testing partner Architech 3D Imaging in Minneapolis. Click on each thumbnail below and in the context of load speed, image quality, navigation features, coverage of exteriors and mobile optimization, I will let you draw your own conclusions about what realtors prefer.

Toursler
Matterport

We have been a little shocked at the response in the marketplace, so we hope that you will bear with us as we work to meet the demand we have found. Please know that we are working to bring more markets and photographers online as quickly as we can, and will be in contact with you via email with periodic updates to let you know how things are progressing and keep you updated.

There may be some adjustments in the process and procedures as we continue to improve through the first phase of roll out but here is some basic information that we can share with you.

* If you already provide 3D scan models to real estate clients, offering Toursler will be seamless. For the most part to your clients and leads, your new offering will appear only as enhancements and additions to your service.

* Tours can be co-branded with your logo and web domain.

* There is no proprietary camera or devices. All the required equipment is readily available for purchase online.

* Shooting for Toursler does require some training and skill. However, if you are familiar with other 3D scan platforms or virtual tour photography, or even have little photography background, we have found the learning curve to be very smooth.

* Images are uploaded straight from the camera into our cloud processing system, and you will receive links to the 3D tour (including exterior coverage), architectural style floor plans with dimensions, and high quality still photos (MLS and full resolution) similar to the format below.
tour: toursler.com/1980-greenwood
tour (unbranded to conform to various listing rules): toursler.com/1980-greenwood?o=u
photos: toursler.com/show/gallery/1980-greenwood

* You will not be doing any measuring when on-site for the floor plan. You will not need to do any post processing such as image stitching. (There have been frequent misconceptions about these two points.)

* Tours can be embedded in an iframe as well as shared on social media very effectively. Try sharing the branded tour link in Facebook yourself to see how it works.

* The final pricing model with be determined at the conclusion of the first phase of testing. We are anticipating a close relationship with our partners and are working diligently to create the tools and materials that will help you to sell the products, support your efforts and grow your business.

Hopefully that answers some of your questions. Please watch your inbox for additional information. In the coming days we will send out a questionnaire to identify partners for our next round of roll-out, planned for the immediate future.


Thank you sincerely from the Toursler team.
Post 30 IP   flag post


DoyleRealtor private msg quote post Address this user
Love the examples

I also have this comparison.. one was shot by me, the other by Architech3di (toursler product)

http://doylerealestateteam.com/8011-southridge-trail-rockford-mn/

Real listing, actually pending right now
Post 31 IP   flag post
Chankane private msg quote post Address this user
Really appreciate the links Doyle!

Got a few questions:
1) How long did it take to photograph/scan for Toursler and Matterport?
2) What is the turn-around time for Toursler?
3) How does Toursler do the floor plan?
Post 32 IP   flag post
DoyleRealtor private msg quote post Address this user
@bryn would be better person to ask. I hired them. I've been getting stuff 1-2 days after shoot depending on the timing and thier workload, and yes floor plan is included
Post 33 IP   flag post
RenderingSpace private msg quote post Address this user
I've had high-end realtors openly reject my Matterport tours because they say the quality is just not there.

I would have to agree with them. It pains me how low-def and terrible the lighting is.

The tech heads in this forum might not care as much because it's fun to geakout with the technology but the reality is that in luxury homes, the colors are so dull and the image quality and lighting is terrible.

This is where Toursler really shines and that Minneapolis Bungalow proves it.

I'm hoping that Matterport comes out with a new camera that has much higher resolution. But the problem is rendering it fast enough to make smooth transitions. Give it a few years and we'll get there.
Post 34 IP   flag post
Bryn private msg quote post Address this user
The floor plan is created from the images that are uploaded. There is no measuring when you are on site or anything. It is seriously like magic at first. I couldn't believe it really worked like that and was very skeptical at first. I would imagine the floor plan generated by Toursler is a combination of computer and human actions but I do not know for sure.

Toursler is faster for scanning especially when you factor in the editing involved with mirrors and windows etc. with matterport. For us it has been about 2,000 sq.ft. an hour and about 60-90 seconds per outdoor scene.

Also important note that with Toursler there is no size restriction. 20,000 sq.ft. no problem. None of the mess with deleting scenes and failed giant models.
Post 35 IP   flag post
RenderingSpace private msg quote post Address this user
My biggest problem with Toursler is all the arrows. It looks ridiculous to have both arrows and floor circles.
Post 36 IP   flag post
DoyleRealtor private msg quote post Address this user
It is nice to see competition in this cutting edge field, I'm anxious to see what both companies are able to come up with. I do think that at some point Matterport is going to need to upgrade their camera, which was a big concern for me and one of the driving factors of why I sold mine. The ability to modify spaces, get quotes from vendors, and new virtual/augmented reality experiences in the future is very exciting.

I am finding that our clients (buyers & sellers) are more impressed with Toursler, they like the included floor plans and it seems like it is easier for them to navigate.

I do have some stats of our recent listings we've sold that we are selling homes faster and winning more business because of the digital showings we're offering. Our average days on market with this tool has been about a week compared to regional average of 60 days. I want to get more sample data before I post my findings however early indications are very positive.

Surprisingly the biggest impact we're seeing is on homes priced BELOW our median home value for the area. Likely due to the millennial buyers, and demand for affordable homes.
Post 37 IP   flag post
Rik private msg quote post Address this user
My problem is that we still know nothing about the Toursler process. The quality of Tousler is impressive, but in my opinion is the comparison with the 3d Showcase from MP not realistic, for many reasons. The lighting conditions are not the same and the MP quality here is so bad, that I assume it is old scan, done with one of the first MP camera's and old processing. The quality of my showcase is far more better.
Why is Toursler process still so secret and is only Bryn working with this. Why don't we hear how it work. Do we first have to fill in a questionnaire to be part of Toursler???
Post 38 IP   flag post
Mikesobay private msg quote post Address this user
I've been to the web site and have found myself confused. It appears as if the site is directed at the end consumer rather than the photographer as the vendor. But that may not be accurate. Is the pricing the cost to the vendor/photographer or to the broker/home seller? Perhaps someone who is using this technique can tell us?
Post 39 IP   flag post
Chankane private msg quote post Address this user
I understand your frustration. Their excuse is that they've been overwhelmed. I guess management don't know how to manage. I've offered help and ideas but aside from a generic email, no response.
Post 40 IP   flag post
DoyleRealtor private msg quote post Address this user
Toursler is actively marketing to the end consumer in Canada, Bryn (Architech3di) was one of the first people to license it out. It would be a good idea for them to create a B2B website, or operate under a different name to avoid the confusion. From my talks with them, they're focused on getting people in place in order to scale the business up. I've heard there is a huge waiting list, especially now since they're getting national attention.

Keep in mind that this is a start up company, and the technology as a whole is just finally gaining traction in real estate industry.
Post 41 IP   flag post
Bryn private msg quote post Address this user
Coming out of stealth is more like it. I can't share all the details because I have an NDA as part of the program not because there is some big secret. I wish I could share more because we are all pushing for better content. Toursler focused on creating the right product for several years. They have been getting that part right as opposed to backing into the real estate market.

I think I waited for over a year for our old matterport and when we got it we did not have a product we could sell given what came out of it at that time which was prior to the panos. It was just the mesh view. I'd much prefer to wait for the finished solution if I had to do it all over again.

The arrows are there for grandma and grandpa. It makes a big difference to those that are not as technically inclined. Not everyone gets the floor circles.

Thanks for the insight with the stats @DoyleRealtor Crazy!
Post 42 IP   flag post
Marcel private msg quote post Address this user
Anyone got any ideas of what the partner pricing is for this product? The website I assume shows pricing for end customers as I can see no way a professional could make any profit on those prices.

I'd be interested in seeing if I can use this product on larger >2000sqm sites as the MP simply cannot handle large open spaces.
Post 43 IP   flag post
DoyleRealtor private msg quote post Address this user
@Marcel The pricing posted is for end user, you'd have to contact them directly to determine backend pricing.

@Bryn thanks, check out the other post I shared some preliminary insights that I can stand behind 100% once I have a larger sample size I will release my full notes. There are simply to many variables in real estate that effect days on market.

The same can be said when an agent tells me their marketing is working because they had more sales this year then previous year yet market as a whole is going up. In order to truly know if something is working it is important to study all of the metrics.

I have to say though, the preliminary stats on this are staggering, if someone were to use them in their marketing no one would believe them. That is why I need to make sure my sample size is larger enough and I eliminate any seasonal/market influence on the data.

Back to the topic at hand...
This isn't a fair comparison as Matterport uses a proprietary camera, where as Toursler is using a DSLR. Toursler is also not yet readily available in most markets thus other than playing with the models that have been created MOST people do not have the experience to comment on which is the better solution.

If you want more comparisons you can see everything I've done with Matterport, Toursler, and VR here: http://doylerealestateteam.com/tag/3d-tour/

I am the one who shot the original 3D scan of home in Rockford, it was shot around the same time of day as when Architech3di reshoot it (months later)

in person the lighting looks somewhere in between the two models. The Matterport version has washed out windows, and appears darker in the scan then in person. Also I was unable to shoot the basement because of the darn door. It blocked the hallway when it was open, and I was not able to add/delete scans to get it to work.

the toursler version looks very bright, I'd say the home actually looks better than it does in person. Being able to go outside is a huge plus, and getting the floor plan & professional photos included all in one package is a major benefit for real estate agents.

I personally like the branded & non-branded wrappers that are provided with social tools built right in with toursler's product.

As previously stated I've seen the beta version of VR from both companies and am super impressed with both. I'm excited to see what they both do in the future.

I had them shoot both Matterport & Toursler for a new construction client of ours and am planning on using the models (and hopefully VR) to sell more builds while sitting in the open house for our next model that is being built right now.

I did poll a number of consumers (primarily female, as that is the demographic I was most curious about) and they strongly preferred Toursler over current version of Matterport
Post 44 IP   flag post
RenderingSpace private msg quote post Address this user
After spending the afternoon comparing and contrasting, here are some thoughts:

Toursler Pros:
(1) The saturation and resolution is far superior
(2) You can go outside!
(3) Way faster upfront loading time
(4) It's truly spherical. You can see the ground.
(5) Branding!

Toursler Cons:
(1) I don't think floor plans are all that great. As a matter of fact, they're pretty bad.
(2) The arrows are WAY distracting and totally unnecessary.
(3) Am I not seeing a fullscreen button?
(4) Transitions between locations are inferior to MP.
(5) No Dollhouse View


Neither are perfect. The techie side of my brain loves the true virtual reality that MP offers. But the artist and creative side of me prefers the beautiful images that Toursler produces.

I'm definitely interested in learning more! And at the end of the day, what matters to me is to do what people prefer.
Post 45 IP   flag post
iGuide CIO
and Co-Founder
Kevin_iGuide private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you Dan for the invitation to join your group and participate in this conversation on new, emerging 3D technologies.

We at iGuide have had the opportunity to speak with many of you from this forum and can say that we too are excited by your interest in 3D capture and presentation technologies.

Our Planitar team has developed our own camera system to capture dimensional and visual data on site which we then translate into floor plans, full 360 degree images, room dimensions and floor areas. Because our system is a metrological device, measurements are captured and computed on site, providing a 98% confidence.

Having just celebrated our second anniversary, we have begun expanding our North America reach through licensing arrangements and we would welcome your feedback on the iGuide System as well.

Thank you again and we look forward to the dialogue.

www.goiguide.com

Warmest regards,
Kevin J. Klages
Post 46 IP   flag post
seanminor private msg quote post Address this user
Interesting discussion. Not sure how this forum feels about being called "Joe's", unless your name is actually Joe.

I can see pros and cons for both. However, it's like the saying goes "would you rather have 100% of nothing or 50% of something?"
At this point the Toursler isn't even an option because it's not available to 99.9% of us. Hard to make money or an impact with nothing. So in my opinion at this time, Matterport is the best technology widely available. I'm not sure why it is taking Toursler so long to determine costs. They may wait so long that someone else comes in to the space before they get their act together. Analysis paralysis; I think we have all experienced that at some point.
Post 47 IP   flag post
Kracka60 private msg quote post Address this user
Hi All

Yeah it has been a bit of a wait so far for any info from Toursler. There are other companies that are entering the marketplace as well so Toursler really need to get the info out to any potential partners ASAP.

Agents here are keen to see the product and start using it but bit hard to push a service with no info or pricing.
Post 48 IP   flag post
sewardje2 private msg quote post Address this user
All

I'm new here as a member. I've been following the discussion. I now understand the end product differences between the MP and Toursler products and I understand the equipment required to do MP! I also understand their process and costs. That was all really easy to figure out--which is suggestive of a company with customer focus. I haven't seen the same from Toursler--at least not that I can find. Is there a succinct listing of what equipment is needed to work Toursler, and what the process is to go from photographs to on-line showing? Can this be done by me, a real estate agent's assistant with some photography skills, or is it done only through a Toursler rep? We want to add this kind of quality to our listings, but I don't have enough information to choose which fork in the road to follow. It may be that I just haven't spent enough time hunting and pecking but if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Post 49 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@sewardje2

Thank you for joining the Forum and your great Tousler questions.

If Tousler is monitoring this thread, please join the discussion.

Or, anyone else know the answers to @sewardje2 questions?

Best,

Dan
Post 50 IP   flag post
DoyleRealtor private msg quote post Address this user
@sewardje2 Toursler's clients are skilled photographers that offer Digital Showings to agents and other customers for a fee. Matterport offers a technology that you the agent or end user can operate yourself.

I've heard they have a waiting list to open up in new markets, you could ask your local provider if they plan on offering it as an option. They may already be in line to get access.

otherwise if you're looking for something you can do yourself, Matterport is awesome. I've had a great deal of success with both.

Check out this article I just wrote for inman;
http://www.inman.com/2015/07/21/how-to-increase-listing-viewership-and-connect-with-sincere-buyers/
Post 51 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@DoyleRealtor

Congrats on the Inman article. Good luck with your presentation at Inman Connect.

Can you ask Tousler to answer @sewardje2 questions?

Thanks,

Dan
Post 52 IP   flag post
DoyleRealtor private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks! I'll actually be on a panel discussing lead conversion now instead of presenting on digital showings as originally planned. The focus of the event is connectivity, it sounds like 3D tours were the hot topic for last event in NY. I'm sure Digital Showings will come up a lot though during the week.

I would recommend contacting them via their website, I'm in no way affiliated with them other than using one of their customers (Architech3di) as my service provider for digital showings locally.
Post 53 IP   flag post
smcclell private msg quote post Address this user
@DoyleRealtor Yeah, great article!
Post 54 IP   flag post
sewardje2 private msg quote post Address this user
@smcclell, I agree, Doyle did a good job of explaining the advantages of the technology. I wish Toursler had a more comprehensive web presence because I don't know how to get Toursler in a South Carolina US market. I see Toronto, San Fran, and Bryn in Minneapolis (but under the banner of Architech 3di). What I don't understand is why Minneapolis doesn't show up on the Toursler site as a location...I assume it is some business arrangement with Toursler by Architech 3di (franchisee or subcontractor?). So it is all a bit confusing because I see the benefit of the technology and would love to have a Toursler option for upscale market customers. Fortunately, Matterport is there and available...and has a readily apparent business plan to market nationally if not globally. In fact, they had a demonstration representative here last week. So I may well take the dip into 3D tour business with Matterport. Whichever gets up to speed first -- Matterport image quality and graphics or Toursler availability in other markets--will then keep me over time. Or I could wait--the problem with that is I think upscale clients won't wait and they'll expect this kind of product once they see it.
Post 55 IP   flag post
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