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Advice Request: Pricing a very large venue15261

chrispy_magic private msg quote post Address this user
Hi,

First time writing on this forum so please inform me if I missed anything or this belongs somewhere else.

Background: I own a virtual tour business which primarily uses the Theta Z1 with the cloudpano hosting platform to create and share tours. I prefer cloudpano primarily because of the versatility and the fact that my tours aren't trapped in the Matterport ecosystem. That may be a mis-statement as I am not an expert on Matterport software. Up to this point, I've undercharged for my services to create a barrier to entry in my area and to establish brand presence. Whether or not that was the correct way to do so is irrelevant as what's done is in the past.

The Project: I am tasked with creating a virtual tour for a large venue with multiple locations/buildings (around 10 different locations/venues). I'm unsure the sqft. Likely around 150 images give or take.

The Problem: I don't know how to quote a project of this size based on a few things. A few questions I have about preparing a quote are:
1. Should I charge a hosting fee as these tours will remain in use for an extended period?
2. How do you normally price clients when you know the tour will be seen by tens if not hundreds of thousands of people? I need to price based on perceived value, but I'm unsure about how to value the tours. I created a google street tour for the venue on my own time (not the area that is being quoted) as a test of equipment which has combined 100k views.
3. How should I negotiate the rights to the photos? Is it assumed that they are purchasing all rights to the photos by hiring me? Ideally I'd like to maintain rights so they have to credit my business wherever the photos are shared. I would be willing to compromise rights to the images for a price, but I'm unsure how to price the rights.
4. How do I charge for hours spent on the project? Do I have to estimate all of them upfront or can I bill them at the end? This could be a few week long project or months long project but I don't want to appear that I'm Nickle and diming them. Is it normal to charge per hour and add that cost to the end?
5. What is the standard upfront fee for a project like this, if any? I usually do 10% upfront on other projects.

I apologize if this post is a mess or too much going on but I'd love to read any discussion that results from it.

My rough estimate right now is that the project will cost between 5-10k all things included (infotags, rights to images, Google Street View uploading, hosting, editing time). Leaning towards 7k based on current estimates.

Thanks.
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@chrispy_magic

Thank you for joining the We Get Around Network Forum and for your questions.

Does the following work for you?

1. Charge X based on your day rate for how many days for creating content (shooting and post production)
2. Charge Y per month for hosting, support and maintenance
3. Double X and Y: you have likely under estimated how long to shoot and post production and the changes that your client will have over time.

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✓ WGAN Forum discussions tagged: Pricing | Large
How should I price this Sports Complex with an aerial view and tours?

Best,

Dan
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @chrispy_magic
3. How should I negotiate the rights to the photos? Is it assumed that they are purchasing all rights to the photos by hiring me? Ideally I'd like to maintain rights so they have to credit my business wherever the photos are shared. I would be willing to compromise rights to the images for a price, but I'm unsure how to price the rights.


Actually, I recommend that you license the use of (rather than a buyout, unless your client specifically asks/negotiates for this).

When you license the use of; it will draw out the client regarding uses that you had not anticipated that you would like to charge for. For example, you deliver on platform X, but they decide to move the project to a different photographer with different hosting. If you did a buy-out, they could do that. While it might sounds unlikely, it could happen (and you no longer get Hosting, Maintenance and Support).

Dan
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispy_magic
4. How do I charge for hours spent on the project? Do I have to estimate all of them upfront or can I bill them at the end? This could be a few week long project or months long project but I don't want to appear that I'm Nickle and diming them. Is it normal to charge per hour and add that cost to the end?


Ways to price can be all over the board:

1. hourly shoot / hourly post
2. SQ FT
3. day rate / 1/2 day rate
4. project
5. project milestones (define milestones)
6. phases (define each phase)
7. Hosting, Maintenance and Support
8. And likely many more

I recommend thinking like your client:

1. easiest to understand
2. fixed fix (which can be project milestones or phases)
3. flat monthly expense
4. terms: X to begin: Y when ______ is completed and delivered; Z for recurring charges

Typically, which way to charge will be based on the Scope of Work and how you can define deliverables

Does that help?

Best,

Dan
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispy_magic
The Project: I am tasked with creating a virtual tour for a large venue with multiple locations/buildings (around 10 different locations/venues). I'm unsure the sqft. Likely around 150 images give or take.


In your example, you might:

✓ charge per building (flat price for each building) – sometimes it's easier for everyone to understand a fixed amount rather than SQ FT. I "get it" that you could shoot X, Y or Z 360s for the same building. So, you may need to define that in your quote

Does that help?

Dan
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispy_magic
5. What is the standard upfront fee for a project like this, if any? I usually do 10% upfront on other projects.


I could never imagine charging 10 percent upfront for your project. It more likely would be:

1. 50 percent of the fix fee portion of the project
2. 1/3 of the fix fee portion of the project
3. None (depends on your client)

10 percent seems like a nuisance.

If your project is $10,000 (before hosting, support and maintenance), I could imagine a payment schedule of either:

1. 50 percent of the fix fee portion of the project
2. 1/3 of the fix fee portion of the project

If it is a large client, cutting checks is a pain. So, you might either get 50 percent or 100 percent upfront and the hosting, support and maintenance for the first year when the project is delivered.

Dan
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Wingman private msg quote post Address this user
I would not charge based on the number of views. I consider this approach very bad no matter whether it is a tour or anything else. I charge for the time required to create a product and whether it is $5M yacht or $10M property it is none of my business.

And if you think about it you will still get paid very well because more expensive assets are usually quite big, it takes more time to do a tour for them and you are paid for it more.

As for the deposit, I ask to be paid in full before I start scanning but I do not demand a payment to be on my bank account before I start. If by starttime there is no payment I will ask for a receipt to be shown. In rare cases I may also do it without receipt if it is a small job. At the end of the day we have control over enabling a tour.. at least with Matterport..

I think Dan has covered the rest in terms of how much to charge. I am personally using price per sqm, hourly rate, rate for half day and a full day. It really depends on each job.
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@chrispy_magic

For a $10,000 project, I recommend three price points:

1. Like a car that is missing all extras
2. Like a car that is nicely loaded
3. Like a car that is fully loaded

Now, the choice is not wether to do the project; but which deliverable/price point ...

Dan
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@chrispy_magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Wingman
I think Dan has covered the rest in terms of how much to charge. I am personally using price per sqm, hourly rate, rate for half day and a full day. It really depends on each job.


A hotel is a great example. While it may make sense to charge per room type; fix amount for the restaurant; and SQ FT for halls, it's likely that the rooms will not be available when you are ready to shoot (typically done after housekeeping between check-out/check-in). Since that's outside of your control, quoting a day rate (specify hours and each additional hour or 1/2 day) may make more sense. You can tell your client that you would expect to be done in two days provided that you have reasonable access to the rooms, BUT that's not something that you or your client has control over.

Dan
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chrispy_magic private msg quote post Address this user
I appreciate all the advice and differing strategies that can be used on a project like this. Reading through the responses have given me a broader perspective on how many different ways to price projects there are. I've gone ahead and sent he proposal using metrics on how many photos I imagine I'll be taking at each location, how many infospots they will likely require, and how many editing hours it will take. I've also tacked on an additional fee for adding the tour to Google Street View. I included in the price for the tours 6 months of hosting which will be reevaluated in the future based on need. Again, thanks for your guys' input.
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@chrispy_magic

Good luck with the potential client. Sounds exciting.

Best,

Dan
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Ace864 private msg quote post Address this user
I think it is possible to solve your problem.
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Ace864 private msg quote post Address this user
Basically, everything you need is just a couple of apps that will secure your video by limiting access to uninvited viewers. It doesn’t matter if you are streaming on-air or it is a recorded video. You can restrict access to it and send an inviting link to a specific group of people. In some countries, real estate people practice this. They share the link of the virtual tour of the property for people who have provided some details and shared their interest in a specific property. The same thing you can do to secure your payments. But the process is slightly different. To find more details, I suggest you check this web page — covery.ai.
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