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Matterport demonstrated several exciting new features at an event tonight10193

Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
Matterport co-hosted an exclusive event at San Francisco. The event was held at the City's new highest-priced residential listing in the City's history, 950 Lombard Street. See Matterport here: clickable text . Matterport demonstrated several new features in development at the event.

First, Matterport showed how iPhone or Android devices may be used as a 3D capture devices. The first iPhone Capture version is expected to be available for beta by the end of the year with a general release slated for the first quarter of 2020. This smartphone capture solution will not require a tripod or motorized mount. Cortex, the AI that made it possible for us to transform 2D images captured by 360 spherical cameras into 3D, makes this smartphone capture possible. Cortex uses billions of individual data points plus data from over 2 million existing digital twins to construct and understand 3D spaces and objects.

Second, Matterport demonstrated new spatial awareness functionality that enables users to interactively measure and share the dimensions of any space – including floor plans, doorways, windows, and walls – automatically. Whereas measurements are only available in Workshop today, we are making dimensionally accurate data and the measurement capabilities from our Workshop app visible and shareable in the digital twin. This will allow users to manually measure the size of an object, check to see if a car will fit in a garage, and will provide automatic measurements of floors, walls, doors, and windows. This powerful feature strengthens the impact of Matterport 3D experiences across applications and industries, from helping prospective homebuyers know whether furniture will fit in a space, to making it easier for contractors to more accurately and efficiently document dimensions during the construction or renovation process.

Lastly, Matterport showed updates to the company’s flagship Capture app and cloud services, including Android capability for Matterport’s flagship Capture App and a planned developer program and updated SDK, offering extended functionality and robust developer APIs. A beta version of our Android capture app will be available in Q4. General availability will come in Q1 of 2020.

We are really excited about these new developments and look forward to releasing even more details in the months ahead.
Post 1 IP   flag post
joelfduran private msg quote post Address this user
I can't be alone in thinking that this is not good for those of us who spent thousands of dollars to differentiate ourselves with your cameras. If we would have waited a year, we could have just used our phones.
Post 2 IP   flag post
WGAN-TV
Training U Member
WayanMatt private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelfduran
I can't be alone in thinking that this is not good for those of us who spent thousands of dollars to differentiate ourselves with your cameras. If we would have waited a year, we could have just used our phones.


HO you know ... nothing surprising here ... the only way matterport thank all past users that helped developping their AI is by increasing price hosting of 500 %, and screw all our businesses ...
Post 3 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Matterport 3D Tour of Residence 950: a $40,500,000 listing in San Francisco by Joel Goodrich with Coldwell Banker and Josh Altman with Douglas Elliman.

Video: Matterport by-invitation-only event. Speaking is Matterport CEO RJ Pittman | Video courtesy of photograchar YouTube Channel | Thursday, 26 September 2019

Your thoughts?

(About to board my flight to Atlanta from London. I will be slow to reply.)

Dan
Post 4 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
In the video above, at about 9:34 you can see the measurement tool in action and at 17:51 starts the intro to the iPhone application.
Post 5 IP   flag post
joelfduran private msg quote post Address this user
So what does Matterport intend to do about those of us that were early adopters, have invested significant time and money into business models that you promoted that you are now making obsolete?
Post 6 IP   flag post
immersivespaces private msg quote post Address this user
@joelfduran Nothing.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Sandiemcr private msg quote post Address this user
HUH???...How in the name of the baby jesus is this possibly good for ANYONE with a camera...

please educate me if i am missing something.....ty
Post 8 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@joelfduran
@WayanMatt
@immersivespaces
@Sandiemcr

Actually, Matterport Pros - like you - should be celebrating the news that:

✓ Matterport will enable Matterport 3D Tours to be created with a smartphone
✓ Matterport has enabled Matterport 3D Tours created with under $1,000 (and even under $500) 360º 1-click cameras).

That's because democratizing the creation of Matterport 3D Tours will increase the demand for professionally shot 3D Tours.

I could imagine that you already have clients because they saw a competitor do Matterport and they contacted you. Now scales this. The more Matterport 3D Tours of [add your vertical of choice here], the more businesses [in this vertical] will want to have a Matterport 3D Tour and a large percentage will want Matterport Service Providers - a professionals - to shoot their content with professional gear.

Cell phones have not put photographers out-of-business. And, even better cell phones will not put photographers out-of-business.

For Matterport to scale exponentially – a good thing for all of us - it is essential that Matterport democratize content creation.

Exponential growth for Matterport WILL translate to more work for Matterport Service Providers (and for higher fees) when the demand for content creation exceeded the Pros to create it.

From my WGAN Forum post two months ago: (before Thursday's (26 September 2019) news that Matterport will offer Smartphone capture):

Will Matterport Offer a Smartphone Capture Solution?

To scale Matterport exponentially, one of the drivers is bringing down the cost of the camera. While we may debate the quality of Matterport 3D Tours captured with an Insta360 One X or Ricoh Theta V, the point here is that the 3D Tours are "good enough" that Matterport opened its platform to these 360 cameras to enable more Matterport content creators. Now, for less than $400 (versus the $4,500 that I paid for my Matterport Pro1 3D Camera in July 2014), Matterport 3D Tour creation becomes much more affordable. And, these 360º 1-click cameras will only get better in quality (and likely continue to decline in price).

Arguably, the even lower cost camera is in our pocket: a smartphone. And, while my iPhone XR phone costs much more than an Insta360 One X or Ricoh Theta V, I would argue that the incremental cost of using a smartphone is zero because I already have the iPhone. Imagine when Matterport enables smartphones, anyone will be able to take Matterport for a spin. While it would likely make sense to have a dedicated smartphone for creating Matterport 3D tours, the key is how does Matterport reduce friction to Matterport 3D Tour trial creation. Trial is the key. It's the beginning of adopting Matterport 3D Tours.

Plus, most people upgrade their smartphones every 12 or 24 months, our Matterport capture device would automatically improve (without having to buy a new, dedicated camera).

--

From my WGAN Forum post 10 months ago (before Matterport mashed up the Ricoh Theta V and Insta360 One X to create Matterport 3D Tours):

Matterport + All 360º Cameras = Exponential Growth (for all of us)

Your thoughts?

Dan
Post 9 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod
@joelfduran
@WayanMatt
@immersivespaces
@Sandiemcr

This has always been MP's game plan. Those of you who started with MP will recall 5 years ago MP was showing a video of a chap shooting a room with an iPad that produced a MP model. We discussed this here https://forum.we-get-around.com/topic/43/what-is-matterports-business-model/ 5 year ago and MP even has an early example of teaming up with Google in project Tango https://forum.we-get-around.com/topic/72/matterport-brings-3d-capture-to-mobile/ here.

You all have to understand MP needed content to develop their AI engine for their mobile capture solution which they just announced. Thanks to all of us who have invested in their technology (call us the early funders of MP as we did indeed kept MP afloat which made it an attractive investment opportunity)MP now has all the content them need to ensure anyone with a smartphone can now become an official MSP.

The question you all have to ask yourselves will your clients appreciate the expertise you bring to the table in regards to producing a VT or will they be solely driven by cost. Something tells me that 9 times out of 10 it will be the cost of the VT that will win the sale.

I look forward to your comments.
Post 10 IP   flag post
cnitschke1 private msg quote post Address this user
Dan is correct on this one, the problem in growing Matterport and Video for real Estate right now is the fact that the technology is bringing the price down, its that the consumer still lacks the exposure to the technology, therefor they are not demanding it, and Realtors do not tend to spend marketing dollars on anything the consumer is not demanding. Right now the opportunity is 5.5 million home sales a year and Matterport has yet to crack 10% of that market. We need to rethink the market. Zillow has jumped in with their vertically integrated tour platform, Ricoh is promoting their tour system and Insta360 seems to be kicking tires on the idea as well. Each of these programs will find a place in the market.

Zillow tours has created a quick and easy $100 to $150 add on to our existing Matterport business. Zillow allow the consumer to shoot their own tours using just their iPhone but agents really don't care. The agent who try to do it themselves tend to either be new to the industry or they are agents who are not terrible productive. Encourage the newbies and ignore the unproductive agents. They are not your market. Productive agents do not have time to shoot homes, they sell homes. Your job is to illustrate the ROI for them and illustrate how your offering creates value, gives them a competitive edge or makes their life easier.

I am speaking from both the position of someone who manages 800 agents for the 45th largest real estate company in the United States, and as someone who co-owns a media company that provides photos, videos and VR to agents and small businesses.

You have to be aware of changes in the market, and you have to continuously evolve and adapt to those changes or you will be out of business. For those who can innovate and educate the consumer the upside to 2020 is that there are about 5,000,000 home sales that should be enhanced with professional photos, video and Matterport tours (assuming that 500,000 of the average annual sales of 5.5 million are already getting Matterport)
Post 11 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@cnitschke1

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnitschke1
Zillow tours has created a quick and easy $100 to $150 add on to our existing Matterport business. Zillow allow the consumer to shoot their own tours using just their iPhone but agents really don't care. The agent who try to do it themselves tend to either be new to the industry or they are agents who are not terrible productive. Encourage the newbies and ignore the unproductive agents. They are not your market. Productive agents do not have time to shoot homes, they sell homes. Your job is to illustrate the ROI for them and illustrate how your offering creates value, gives them a competitive edge or makes their life easier.


Well said.

Dan
Post 12 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnitschke1
Realtors do not tend to spend marketing dollars on anything the consumer is not demanding.


Spot on! What can we - Matterport - do to help inspire home sellers to demand Matterport 3D Tours?!

Democratization of Matterport is a BIG start. Plus, if new agents - and unproductive agents - create their own tours, they will help create the demand for Matterport Service Providers - Pros - among the sweet spot of busy, prolific real estate agents.

Dan
Post 13 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@joelfduran We are not seeing handheld smartphone capture (HSC) as a cannibalizing the proline of cameras - the Pro2, BLK360 and future cameras in this line. Rather we see HSC as opening up yet another set of use cases for another audience we are not reaching in scale today - much like we saw the 360 spherical camera support we added opened up new use cases rather than eat into pro opportunities.

For example, HSC is for usage by individuals to try out the Matterport experience for free, document home and belongings for insurance purposes, or make a model to help with redecorating ideas.
Post 14 IP   flag post
cnitschke1 private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod
@Jwbuckl

Thanks Dan. I agree on all of these points. I have only been talking about the 5.5 million or so annual real estate sales. The other industries like property management, insurance documentation, travel and hospitality and more means that there are opportunities to create businesses for those who can identify market problems and provide solutions to those problems.

The first thing we did 5 years ago was we bought a Matterport pro 1 camera. agents didn't understand the technology, and distribution was lacking as this predated the Matterport/Realtor.com integration. Agents did not want to pay for tours that that didn't solve any problems for them and we didn't know how to leverage the technology to get listings.

We made the camera available to agents to use for themselves and after about a month or two it ended up in the closet for the next few years.

5 years later, within the Sothebys part of our office portfolio, we have reached a point where 25% of our residential listing have Matterport tours for them. About the same percentage of agents now have iPads where they use the Showcase app to demo those home tours to prospective sellers or use their iPads when they have floor duty and for open houses.

My biggest challenge is not newer cheaper cameras (these are create new markets and use cases for me) but instead, I have been working with the 9 MLSs that we operate within to to add Matterport and Video in addition to the existing "virtual tour slot" since this makes syndication more predictable for partners like Realtor.com.

Also as business become more aware of technologies like Google street view my MSP business is now getting calls to shoot street view for business, and once we complete the street view project, they have been opting to also purchase Matterport and accounts so that they can integrate Matterport tours and MatterTags into their social media programs and websites.

We just wrapped up about 70,000 square feet for a local church (which is also becoming hyperlocal content for our real estate site) and this job has lead to a conversation with a local colleges Athletic Director to shoot their sports facility and a local city government who has a use agreement with the church to use their sports complex for community events is now considering having us shoot their new city hall complex.

These are not projects that are going to be done with a Ricoh z1 let alone your iPhone.





Tomlinson Sothebys International Realty's Idaho Matterport Tours
Post 15 IP   flag post
suncoastskyview private msg quote post Address this user
I respectfully disagree with you, Dan.

I've seen a great many pro photographers (especially in the wedding market)lose a lot of their business to cellphone cameras and amateur shooters.

The competition to Matterport technology thus far, has markedly inferior image quality at least at this stage, but the quality and ease of use will continue to evolve and will surely get better. My clients already balk at the price of a professional Matterport tour. They can't see much difference and certainly don't want to pay. On the other hand, from my viewpoint, Matterport scanning is not very creative and takes a long time do do. I don't want to do it on the cheap.

I've had my camera for about five years and I doubt that it has even paid for itself, much less even turned a miniscule profit. If I had it to do over again, I don't think I would. I find it difficult to be optimistic about the future of Matterport photography. Please someone tell me I'm wrong.
Post 16 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
I totally agree with @suncoastskyview. Thankfully as the fist person to have a camera in Europe I paid for my camera and all other equipment I've purchased early on but I'll tell you it wasn't in the real estate sector as that is a bottom feeders market with one large shop doing MP VT's for £99.00 and that's if the customer even wants to pay that. I stop shooting MP over a year ago as my clients had issues with the copyright and hosting. So I produce everything now with a DSLR.

I don't care what anyone says here as they try desperately to convince themselves that consumers will line up and pay top money for VT's. What the folks above forget is that most people have never seen a VT so as long as a potential customer can tour a property be it VT or video they are happy. On the buyers end they are going to look for the best price possible and that means jobs going to shooters shooting photos, video or VT's with their phone and that is why MP has launch this new service. MP and their investors can see the hand writing on the wall and it says sadly "LEAST COST RULES"

What I witness of MP's new amazing mobile capture app was incredible. Their engineering team have surpassed themselves in the development of this app. And this was the first cut so it will only get better. I see no reason why potential customers won't go for VT's shot this way. If you look are the quality of GEOcv and what their Samsung 8 phone can capture with the quality of the VT that is where MP is also heading.

So those looking as an investment into a pro MP camera need to think very hard about dropping $5,000 versus taking our your smartphone and producing a VT. The only hope for the pro MSP to pay off their investment is to look for high-end property shoots (if they can find people willing to pay for a VT) or commercial shoots. The one thing about commercial shoots is your are committed to hosting that commercial site for years so you better consider that before your take on a commercial client cause if your decide to pack it in as you may discover you can't make your VT business pay and you stop paying MP their monthly fee the clients VT's goes dark

Happy shooting
Post 17 IP   flag post
Standard
Member
Home3D private msg quote post Address this user
@Jwbuckl - I am most interested in a detailed technical discussion of the San Francisco demo space posted above - Residence 950. It's all fine and dandy to know that Joel Goodrich and Josh Altman are selling this $40M estate, but I'd like to know who did the hard work of scanning it and building this model. WGAN is a forum for photographers more than agents.

For starters, almost the entire exterior roof above the 2nd floor is displayed on the front half of the home. How was this scanned? BLK360 or Pro camera on a very tall crane? Was this model created with a combination of Pro, BLK, Theta, Insta? It's an impressive model, and this forum is dedicated to educating members. Some scan positions clearly show the use of a crane to elevate the camera 15-20'. Is this how the roof was scanned?

How many days were required? It's clearly visible that weather changes from node to node. Would be great to know the total duration of shooting and # of scans incorporated.

Kindly arrange for the creator of this model to explain steps which were required. Thank you. I'll be watching with interest.
Post 18 IP   flag post
WGAN-TV
Training U Member
WayanMatt private msg quote post Address this user
Sorry, I insisit on my position
1) Real estate industry is driven by costs, whatever the quality, costs is the issue, so MSPs with the Pro2 expensive camera cannot compete, and will more & more struggle to compete.
on my market, i am confronted to Villa managers that do not want to invest in this, and the answer is ,"if a owner asks, i will come back to you" ... so if tomorrow, any individuals (like these owners) can do it with an iphone ... let me tell you i am losing my time right now.

- you will tell as always that there are other markets such as commercials or hospitality, let me tell you what the reality is on the field :

2) We are limited to a 200 scans (more scans can work for larger space but Matterport itself is affirming they don't guarantee the results ... hard to assure all will be fine to clients) it is so hard to be limited to these 200 scans when we're in the need to scan a hotel or large commercials.
The solution brought by Matterport ? ... make different scans and link them with mattertags !
first this is not what clients of large venues want when we speak about a walkthrough visit, they want a walkthrough visit from the entire venue.
In addition, if we have to scan this type of venues with different spaces and link them with mattertags, this makes a lot of spaces to host, increasing without limitation our hosting costs... how to make this viable for our businesses ?, increasing the hosting cost for our clients !...
and back to the beginning .... this is not acceptable for long term clients that need their spaces on long term !!! (a few folks will tell us "I do it, because i am a superman" ... good for you, but that does not work everywhere in the world, particularly in some countries where every cents count.

3) Matterport is now refusing to stitch spaces when it has to be done (we all know it is possible, but of course, we are cows full of milk , better to charge us with more spaces hosted) .... thanks for the Help Matterport, whatever the solution we think about, you are blocking us, technically when it is not financially.

So I really insist
@DanSmigrod, for once, i do not agree with you
@Jwbuckl, as always, your speech is a nonsense for me
Post 19 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@WayanMatt I am confident that when you get time with the Beta of the Handheld Smartphone Capture (HSC) App later this fall, you will agree that it opens up opportunities and addresses new use cases for the platform versus threatens the professional market. We understand that with each new capture device introduced, there are many tradeoffs when you select the tool for the job: price, portability, time to scan, quality of images, measurement accuracy, features supported are the big ones. Just like when the 360 spherical cameras were first introduced it gave everyone a gasp before the tradeoffs were understood with use in the field. HSC is no different. HSC has a lot of positives, but if you are familiar with creating a photosphere on Andriod (a generally similar process) you know you wouldn’t want to spend the time to do a whole home using HSC. This is not its intended purpose in the Capture lineup.

Using the model shared in the press release as an example, this large garage took about 3 hours to scan using an iPhone and HSC. In my estimate, it would’ve taken about 20 minutes with a Pro2. While image quality and accuracy may be acceptable (provided it was an Alpha) I can’t see your current customers using HSC as an alternative to you. Their time is too valuable. HSC is intended for small jobs, and will be very powerful when coupled with the other announcement - the new measurement capabilities, and will broaden awareness of Matterport to consumers overall which is a benefit to us all.

The market need for Matterport Professionals is growing, not shrinking and HSC is not going to change that for the foreseeable future.
Post 20 IP   flag post
WGAN-TV
Training U Member
WayanMatt private msg quote post Address this user
@Jwbuckl
Thanks for your copy/paste, I red it already on facebook
repeating does not make me convinced !
i wished you would be more answering my last contribution on the contradiction about your advises to target new markets and your decision at Matterport to make it harder for us technically speaking, to be able to aswer these new markets in a professional way
Post 21 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@Home3D I plan a larger write up this coming week once I clear any confidentialities out of the way. But here is what I can share for starters:

1. The Matterport team did indeed work together with an MSP to build the model.

2. Three separate cameras were used in the creation of this model - the Pro2, the Blk360 (outdoors) and the iPhone with an Alpha version of the smartphone capture app (garage).

3. An extended tripod (~20')was used for the exterior shots to capture the rooflines at you suspected.

4. The iPhone capture was used specifically in the garage and driveway area of the home separately from the MSP.

5. The captures did happen over a number of days/times in order to capture the day/night scenarios and because of the number of scan points over the sprawled out property. I do not yet know the total number of scan points. Home is about 9,500 square feet but then there is a separate health center. The structure covers four floors plus the grounds.

Hope that helps as a start.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Standard
Member
Home3D private msg quote post Address this user
@Jwbuckl - Thank you for these initial details. Lots of different systems used here, which is interesting. I suppose the BLK was helpful with the daylight exterior areas. Was the iPhone used in the garage simply to demonstrate this new capture capability? Seems a traditional Pro camera would have done just fine, yes?

It's a very attractive finished model and tour so a solid demonstration of both technology and artistry IMHO.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@Home3D I just found out that there were 400 scan locations but after deduping, there are about 300 in the model now. There was not stitching involved.

The BLK was helpful with the daylight exterior areas. The iPhone was used in the garage simply as a demonstration. This would not be the tool one would use normally given the time it takes for capture. The Pro2 is the right tool all things considered equal.

I will follow up on the question of the MSP early in the week.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@WayanMatt Sticking to the topic of your worries about the HSC taking business away from the Pro2 market, let me try it another way.

Using the field of view of a Pixel 2 phone, for example, it takes about 30 photos per photosphere to create a scan point. If you have a villa with say, just 10 scan points, then yes, maybe I can possibly see someone willing to set up and align 300 photos over the course of an hour or two to get it done once. But this is not the place for the professional. The professional will be focused more on the places with 40-200 scan points or more. Can you see a real estate agent or vacation rental owner etc, willing to take 1,200 to 6,000 individually aligned photos over the course of many hours instead of continuing with outsourcing to a professional? We can't. Time is just too valuable and I believe the experience would be entirely frustrating.

I hope this help explain things better.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@Home3D I am following up on the MSP question as promised.

The MSP for this scan was Bill Robinson of Capture It 3D of San Francisco. clickable text

Bill was a 2017 Matty Award Winner.
Post 26 IP   flag post
iGuide CEO
and Co-Founder
Alex_iGuide private msg quote post Address this user
@Jwbuckl I was curious to see iPhone performance on this and took a closer look at the garage scans. It appears that the tour linked in this thread has panos shot with Pro2 in the garage as evidenced by Pro2 shadows on the floor and walls and tripod legs sticking out from underneath the typical hexagonal blur at the bottom. Did I miss it and where can pure iPhone scans be found?
Post 27 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@Alex_iGuide I put in an email to the Matterport tech that did the scanning to see what's up. Stand by.
Post 28 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
SPAR3D (2 October 2019) Matterport announces 3D capture and smart measurement for smartphones using AI
Post 29 IP   flag post
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