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CopyrightLawPhotography for Real EstateVideoVirtual Tour

That's my photo! A life lesson in copyrights.9421

Changesin3d private msg quote post Address this user
@SoldSquad I understand your comments. Points well taken, but the question I was addressing to Jbuckl is pretty simple, as the copyright owner do we have the ability to delete the file and them not keep or use the scan in the future. Does delete really mean delete?

I would love to hear you opinion if you had paid for a scan and the client requested that it be deleted, and in their eyed "deleted means destroyed" should the scan be deleted if the scanner say so.

Stated another way, say you purchased the scans copyright, as the Realtor, would you expect the entire scan be deleted, if you requested that, so it could never be recovered by anyone for any reason?

Does delete mean delete?
Post 26 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@Changesin3d This information has been supplied to you above and in the Privacy Policy. "For additional information on designating your imagery as “public” or “private”, restricting third parties from editing or re-sharing your imagery, and the consequences of archiving your imagery, deleting your imagery and/or terminating your account, please also see the Matterport Cloud Subscription Agreement. We will store your imagery for the longer of (i) the period of your subscription to the Matterport Cloud or (ii) 10 years from the date of first import into the Matterport Cloud." Privacy Policy here clickable text

The Cloud Services Agreement (CSA) can be found here clickable text

As an aside, the CSA should assuage your earlier fears of termination as a form of retribution. You will see the conditions for termination as "10.3. Termination by Matterport. Matterport may terminate this Agreement (and cancel Your access to the Matterport Cloud or any component thereof) at any time if You have failed to pay any subscription fee or additional fees when due and failed to make such payment within thirty (30) days after receiving a reminder from Matterport in writing. Matterport may also terminate this Agreement (and cancel Your access to the Matterport Cloud or any component thereof) prior to the end of any Subscription Period if You have committed any other material breach of this Agreement and failed to cure such material breach within ten (10) days after receiving written notice of the breach from Matterport."

Finally, isn't the real issue of copyright and disclosure with real estate photography and virtual tours with MLS and the real estate networks like Zillow and Redfin? Aren't you are forced to assign over copyright in full AND there is no data protection/deletion guarantees? I understand that is a real mess for many.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Changesin3d private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwbuckl
We will store your imagery for the longer of (i) the period of your subscription to the Matterport Cloud or (ii) 10 years from the date of first import into the Matterport Cloud."


Correct me if I am wrong, what you re saying, when you go to the DELETE icon for the MSP in the Matterport workshop Matterport. Inc. is still keeping the "images and data" and you can use them. So the MSP does not control deletion, of his copyrighted data. If he were to transfer the copyright and the REALTOR wanted the it deleted, it is still saved by Matterport.

When you talk about TERMINTION
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwbuckl
As an aside, the CSA should assuage your earlier fears of termination as a form of retribution. You will see the conditions for termination as "10.3. Termination by Matterport.


it seems that you are now quoting a different document that is not the TERMS OF USE. Just now I went to the terms of use that I have been referencing and checked again and this is still a direct quote.
https://matterport.com/terms-of-use/

"Termination.
Matterport may terminate your use of the Service at any time in our sole discretion. Upon any such termination, you must destroy any material obtained from the Service and all copies thereof. The provisions of these Terms concerning Site security, prohibited activities, ownership, third-party copyrights, trademarks, user submissions, disclaimer, limitation of liability, indemnity, privacy, and jurisdictional issues shall survive any such termination."

So there is clearly different statements in different documents relative to exactly the same topic Termination. How does that "assuage" anyone? Should not all Matterport documents be easy to understand and without ambiguity. Then factor in that you can change either the Terms of Use or the Cloud Subscription Agreement at anytime. And that Matterport has tired to do that before.

I understand that you are someone new to the company but some of the first adopters have been through a lot with Matterport things that were not clear, like the famous T.O.S.

Now we have a new set of problems we face and you seem to be aware of it. That this the increasing demand by Brokers that Realtor obtain the COPYRIGHT of the images they use, from the Photographers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwbuckl
Aren't you are forced to assign over copyright in full AND there is no data protection/deletion guarantees? I understand that is a real mess for many.


I agree you are CORRECT but this is a MESS facing the Photographers and thus Matterport in my opinion. It would appear the simple solution is for the REALTORS to demand the copyright. Brokers want that control. and with MATTERPORT having a license and thus control, we as MSPs would have to disclose that when we assign the Copyright. There is no deleting it. I pose this as a question and look forward to your view. If there were a security breach or you change you license rights, which Matterport has tried to do before, and while Matterport still asserts the right to change all part of the Cloud agreement, how do we deal with that.

It is common knowledge you are revamping the MSP program, are there any plans to give MSPs a standard disclosure, or terms to disclose your license if the Realtor demands the copyright? The word on the street is that DATA is what you want and to then sell use of the data. I think this trade rumor comes from the statement of your executives about yet unknown uses for the data. I think it was the DATA from our copyrighted data that created the ability to use cameras like Ricoh Thetas that do not have depth sensor, is this true? Did our data create competition for us, making it possible for a Realtor to buy a $400.00 camera and provide a Matterport tour?

As we all look at this and how it effects our business model we run across things of interest, much of it will create some of the very things we are talking about. Here is one on DATA, and the increasing value. I think some people will find this real interesting.

https://medium.com/reconstruct-inc/the-golden-age-of-computer-vision-338da3e471d1
Post 28 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@Changesin3d For clarity, The Terms of Service govern users of the website etc and The Cloud Services Agreement governs you, the account holder and user of the Cloud Service itself. They are different things and not in conflict.

From the TOS: "Please read these Terms of Use (“Terms”) carefully before using the Matterport website or any Matterport products, software, applications, data, imagery, models, functionality and/or services provided to you on, from, or through the Matterport website (collectively, the “Service”). Using the Service indicates that you accept these Terms and any policies and guidelines of Matterport incorporated herein by reference. If you do not accept these Terms or such policies or guidelines, you may not use the Service."

From the CSA: "This Matterport Cloud Subscription Agreement, including the Spaces Processing and Hosting Terms, Schematic Floor Plan Terms, the VR Terms, and the Exportable File Terms set forth below (collectively, the “Agreement”), sets forth the terms and conditions pursuant to which Matterport, Inc. (“Matterport”) will provide you or the entity that you represent (“You”) with the right to access and use the Matterport Cloud."

You have taken my reference to copyright for Realtors being a mess out of context, unfortunately. We have exhausted this topic.
Post 29 IP   flag post
Standard
Member
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@Changesin3d

Why not sell your Matterport camera and move on?

If you like, I will add you to the WGAN Private Group for Buying/Selling Used Matterport Pro1/Pro2 3D Cameras.

Happy July 4th ...

Dan
Post 30 IP   flag post


Changesin3d private msg quote post Address this user
Dan:

Because you asked, you deserve a response, in consideration of all you do for this industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSmigrod
Why not sell your Matterport camera and move on?

If you like, I will add you to the WGAN Private Group for Buying/Selling Used Matterport Pro1/Pro2 3D Cameras.

Happy July 4th ...


First I am not saying I am right, I am following my gut instincts. I could be entirely wrong I am not an attorney, I could lose some money on my Matterport Business Opportunity. I share this to answer your question why I am not just selling the camera and walking away.

When someone posts a related link or makes a reference I research them. I have read the California Seller Assisted Market Act and the FTC rules for selling a business opportunity.

Here is an attached link to the Ca. Act. You will note on this link all sections of the code are listed in ascending numeric value. I will mention the number of the code as I believe it applies. All you need do is use this first link to follow along.
https://california.public.law/codes/ca_civ_code_section_1812.200

Both regulations, to me, again not being an attorney, are something I think could apply to Matterport. There are three clearly laid out requirements in the California law that defines if you are subject to the act. First the code lays out if it applies to the business opportunity / investment that link is section. 1812.01 There are three important parts to code as I see it. I invite you to read them and then look at the Matterport adds to become and MSP at

https://matterport.com/matterport-service-partner-network/

Does it look like any claim that Matterport makes fall into the three established categories?

I have read the codes and advertisements and believe the code could apply to the advertisements that Matterport made, and continues to make.

Part of both laws (FTC and CA.) require written discloses. (see section 1812.205?) Knowing that the MSP Program is being revised if Matterport all of the sudden starts giving out those forms, that would be interesting. If they do not, that could also be interesting. This Ca. Law seems to have very similar counterparts in over 20 other states.


If you go further into the code / Act you will see that a buy back of the "opportunity" could apply(1802.215?) and that even attorney fees could be assessed. (1802.218?)

So from a business standpoint it may be best to hold the camera and see if a buyback happens. Why sell a first version Matterport for $800.00 and then not be able to return it, so you could take advantage of a buy back? I guess want I am saying it it's a risk vs. possible reward.

Also I think something is on the horizon that would calm my nerves for an MSPs ability to delete and taking care of privacy concerns. Privacy is a big thing with Realtor Associations around the country. Copyright control is a bi product of the discussion, but the big issue is about privacy. Since “GDPR” came into effect multiple states, in the United States have or are taking action by drafting laws about a consumers right, to have private information deleted. Matterport may suddenly have to present and opt out of keeping the data. If that happens I will rush forward with using my camera. I love the tech, great advantages to it.

Because @Jwbuckl has stated I took his statement about "copyright" out of context I apologize to him and invite him to clarify, as I really did not mean to misuse his quote. But from my view there are things happening at Realtor Associations nationwide relative to copyright and privacy. Matterport is not the focus of the discussion, but the things the Realtor Association suggest to brokers could sure have an effect. Think if Realtor are advised to only use media where they have the full COPYRIGHT of video, pictures and 3D tours. I think most providers would not blink and eye and sign a copyright release for the Realtor who hires them.

In each one of the code references I have placed a question mark, that is because I am not an attorney and I really do not know. No one should rely on my interpterion of any code. From my common man approach and experience they look like good places to start a discussion if you could ever get and appointment at the Attorney General's office. It is great we live in a free society where the Government posts these laws on websites so we have easy access to research and discuss issues like this related to our industries and even have discussion with Jwbuckl.

I will likewise wish you a great 4th of July, and God Bless America.
Post 31 IP   flag post
Matterport
Representative
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user
@Changesin3d I am at a loss as to how to support you any further. I honestly believe your best course of action, as previously stated, would be to seek the advice of your business attorney to help you through these questions. I hope I have been open and transparent with data as best as I can afford the time to be.

Matterport is indeed in the early stages of planning upgrades to its MSP program, but not for the sake of the documentation reasons you stated above. There will be more on this in the months ahead as things gel internally.

I trust that your Matterport Pro has served you very well for its intended reason you purchased it a number of years ago. The service continues to assist Realtors like you to win listings and sell homes faster and for more money. It's proven as I know you understand. By all means, leverage it while you have it.
Post 32 IP   flag post
Changesin3d private msg quote post Address this user
@JwBuckl thank you for the follow up. It will be interesting to see if holding on to the camera in the long run is the better play.

Going to be a real no win situation if Matteport needed those disclosure and did not provide them.

You know what would really benefit Matterport IMHO is to reach out to the major Realtor Associations and work with them on what you call the copyright mess. It would be my view that their concern is privacy.

I have heard some associations are looking at European Privacy law and some of the State laws... they do not want Realtors caught in the liability they can see brewing.

Have a great 4th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwbuckl
The service continues to assist Realtors like you


Don't think I ever said I was a Realtor.
Post 33 IP   flag post
Standard
Member
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Hi All,

I just noticed someone using one of my videos on their YouTube Channel without my permission. (Not embedded: screen scraped)

I sent a polite note requesting that they take it down.

Otherwise, I will be filling out the YouTube to remove my content (which always works).

Dan
Post 34 IP   flag post
Standard
Member
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Hi All,

An update. The content was removed within having to fill out a YouTube take down request.

Dan
Post 35 IP   flag post
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