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3DVistaAdviceCUPIXPro2Real Estate

3DVista opinions? (Versus CUPIX and Matterport)7565

CFster private msg quote post Address this user
Hello, I’m a real estate photographer looking to get into offering virtual tours, and am having trouble swallowing the cost of Matterport, all things considered.

Having read a few threads on 3DVista, I’m wondering if it’s still a viable alternative? I also looked at Cupix - is it true you have to use a Theta camera?

One thing I can’t get past with Matterport is I have to essentially shoot a property twice, as their “snapshots” aren’t on par with DSLR photos. I want to do it once and get out, and initial reaction from my clients is they don’t want to pay twice either.

I keep asking the salesperson from Matterport who’s been emailing me for weeks, trying to sell me a Pro2 to get an answer regarding any plans to offer RAW files, and an option to backup files off the iPad (having to buy additional iPads when they get full just seems ridiculous to me).

I know this is a loaded question, but thoughts on Cupix vs. 3DVista? I know they don’t offer the fluidity, or accuracy, but those may be trade offs I’m willing to make.
Post 1 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@CFster

Thank you for joining the WGAN Forum and for your thoughtful question.

To help me advise you, kindly help me understand what trade-offs are okay. For example, what are "must haves" and "would like to have"?

Also, are you presently shooting 360º spherical panoramas with your Pro gear? (And, how are you presently stitching these panoramas?

Additional insight about you and why you are exploring offering virtual tours?

Thanks,

Dan
Post 2 IP   flag post
CFster private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for the reply Dan,

I am not presently shooting panoramas. Just normal DSLR still photography. I see 3D tours as the next logical step in growing my business. As I had seen Matterport frequently advertised on my competitor’s web sites, that was the first place I looked. Then I found this site and a very long list of alternatives I had no idea existed.

There are obviously quite a few options, but here’s what I’m looking for:

- 3D navigable “space” of the property
- Ability to make a teaser video of a guided tour (I believe this is important, as many of my clients post short walkthrough videos on social media)
- Tags
- Automatically generated floor plans with measurements
- The ability to backup the tour data locally
- Can I host the tour myself, instead of paying for cloud hosting? I have web space.

I know Matterport ticks several of those boxes, but I’m afraid of investing $4500 in what’s a rapidly evolving medium. From the way the salesperson keeps emailing me with discounts, it makes me think they’re trying to get rid of inventory to make way for a new camera. I know there’s an extensive wishlish of changes on the part of many users on this very forum.

I also like the idea of using my own DSLR to take the shots, and being able to provide high res stills at the same time.

Thanks
Post 3 IP   flag post
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Property3dNZ private msg quote post Address this user
@CFster
Why don't you use a Matterport pro to capture the tours for you?

No outlay on camera,reduces your time on site to do more important things for your clients (not to mention find new clients and sell more houses), plus the skill of an already experienced photographer who has already been offering the service for some time... Believe it or not its not always as simple at MP make it out to be.
Post 4 IP   flag post
CFster private msg quote post Address this user
@Property3dNZ that’d always an option but I’d rather offer this service myself. My question isn’t about if it’s worth it, it’s about what other platform are viable alternatives.
Post 5 IP   flag post
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VTLV private msg quote post Address this user
As a user of 3D Vista, I like the program and have not used it to the fullest.

I ended up paying for hosting through 3D Vista not being able to convert tours onto it correctly onto my hosting service.

The free stitcher program that came with it works well where crop sensor camera and glass size will need to be paid attention to for proper alignment.

3D Vista and just about any other program I have run across does nothing for creating floor plans except for Matterport and Iguide. I managed to luck out on a couple that already had floor plans to place the pins on. This appears to be what you would do with Cupix as well. My creation of floor plans is in limbo at the moment with a toss up using a Bosch Laser Measure or just bust out the Matterport and make one. Happy to hear what is working for those using apps on their Ipad.

3D Vista gives you a lot of control over what you can do with 360 photo and video tours to host yourself. I just haven't worked out the kinks on getting the tour onto my server. I sometimes wonder if the Stitcher 4 program and shoot DSLR is worth while as it's gets outdated. I believe the Stitcher program was free with the Virtual Tour Pro Program.

You can trial for 30 days. Jose and Larissa were helpful with everything. I do not recall how long the trial was good for and watch for the conversion from dollars to Euro's on pricing.
Post 6 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@CFster

About your question ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by @CFster
I know this is a loaded question, but thoughts on Cupix vs. 3DVista? I know they don’t offer the fluidity, or accuracy, but those may be trade offs I’m willing to make.


The short answer:

Phase 1

Option 1: Buy an under $500 360º 1-click camera such as the Ricoh Theta V, Xiaomi Mi Sphere and subscribe to CUPIX (Special WGAN Offer) (Note: you can use any 360º camera or DSLR 360º solution for content creation)
Option 2: Buy theVRkit (rotator, fisheye lens) for your smartphone and subscribe to CUPIX

Phase 2

Option 1: Buy a NCTech iSTAR Pulsar – if/when it integrates seamlessly with CUPIX or an Insta360 Pro (if live or recorded 360º video is interesting to you.) Subscribe to CUPIX
Option 2: Buy a DSLR fish-eye lens and 360º rotator (I have a Sigma 8mm fish-eye lens and R1 rotator from NodalNinja) Subscribe to CUPIX

The (much) longer answer:

As a professional real estate photographer, your learning curve shooting with a Matterport Camera – or a 360º 1-click Camera – paired with CUPIX – would be short. The hardest part of virtual tour photography is actually business development / sales /marketing. So, as @Property3dNZ suggests:

1. See if you can up-sell virtual tour sales first
2. Outsource the tour creation (WGAN provides free referralsanywhere around the globe)
3. When you can up-sell enough virtual tours to justify the investment, it will be an easy decision

Besides, you might find that the Ricoh Theta V is “good enough” to make sales. (See this WGAN Forum discussionMatterport Scan: Is Good Enough; Good Enough? – that includes this great question from @Rootsyloops …”are we artists, business-people, or both?”

Most professional photographers – when they see Matterport for the first time – instantly want to buy it. That’s Shiny New Toy Syndrome. Your first thought should be, let me see if I can get paying customers before I buy.

That said, I have talked with enough professional photographers thinking about buying Matterport to know, you are not alone. You will invest in the tech, BEFORE you see if you can up-sell enough virtual tours to justify the expense.

So, I will address your question …
Quote:
Originally Posted by @CFster
I know this is a loaded question, but thoughts on Cupix vs. 3DVista? I know they don’t offer the fluidity, or accuracy, but those may be trade offs I’m willing to make.


As a professional real estate photographer, it is unlikely that you will be happy with Matterport because:

✓ There is no practical Matterport backup and restore feature.
✓ While you “own” the copyright; that’s misleading. You do not have control your digital assets
✓ You can not host locally
✓ Matterport does not offer a white-label solution: the Matterport logo is everywhere, including “your” 2D floor plans
✓ Many WGAN Forum posts about Matterport sales targeting your clients (example) (example)
✓ Investment in a proprietary gear and platform
✓ You will not be happy with the workflow, delivery, post production (not RAW) or quality of snapshots from the Matterport Camera
✓ Matterport as a competitor (example) (example) (example)
✓ Exception: if you have (enough) Clients specifically requesting Matterport (though, as you have experienced, Matterport is obsessed with selling camera: not growing the market

In a previous life, I did the DSLR + 8mm fish-eye lens + rotate + stitch thing. With the quality of 360º 1-click cameras getting (much) better and the price continuing to fall, I feel like sending you in this direction is like sending you back to the darkroom days rather than saying digital workflow.

Even if getting a Ricoh Theta V is not the right, long-term camera solution for you to pair with CUPIX, it’s enough to get you started and the workflow will be similar - if, when you invest in a higher quality 360º 1-click camera solution.

I defer to @VTLV on 3D Vista. My previous workflow included PT Gui Pro and GardenGnome Pano 2VR.

Does this help?

Please do let us know what you decide and why. You asked a great question that many professional real estate photographers ask.

Best,

Dan

P.S. Hi All, disagree? Please post to this discussion ...
Post 7 IP   flag post
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Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@CFster

I will write more about your second post (above) later ... traveling ...thanks for your patience.

Dan
Post 8 IP   flag post
CFster private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod and @VTLV

Thanks for the detailed replies. I’ll be sure to investigate the info and links you have provided once I’m done with the work day.

Initial thoughts after quickly scanning your post - I was ready to drop $4k on a Matterport a week ago. Something like a Theta or a fish eye lens is peanuts in the grand scheme of things, so that’s not going to hold me back. It’s the features of Cupix and 3DVista I need to compare.

Let me ask you this. If you’re out of a 2,000 sq’ home in an hour shooting with a Theta, then how much longer does it realistically take with a DSLR and rotator?

Thanks.
Post 9 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @CFster
Let me ask you this. If you’re out of a 2,000 sq’ home in an hour shooting with a Theta, then how much longer does it realistically take with a DSLR and rotator?


While shooting with any of these 1-click 360º cameras, a DSLR plus rotator (or smartphone + rotator), will take about the same amount of time, the post production with a DSLR plus rotator will add about 10 minutes more per scan in post (what it took me when I was in the groove). Considering that you can simply upload 360º directly to CUPIX, I (still) can not imagine adding 10 minutes per scan. You will likely be competing with someone using a 1-click camera for "good enough" that the client is willing to pay for versus how much more you would need to charge.

Yes. I hear you. You want to compete on "quality" ... that said, most clients will settle for "good enough" to get value pricing. You "owe" it yourself to see if "good enough" will enable you to get virtual tour business before investing $$$$$ in camera gear and accessories.

If you think that you want to go the DSLR + rotator route anyway, give some thought to trying theVRkit rotator (special offer for WGAN Forum Members: 24W5SP18) (iStaging uses a white label version of theVRkit (special offer). Surprising, the quality of the 360º made with the rotator + smartphone will look almost as good as a DSLR shot 360º (really). And, the rotator kit is less than $100 (before you invest in an 8mm fish-eye lens + rotator).

I still encourage you to go the route of a 1-click 360º camera. If you eventually do construction documentation progress reporting in the AEC space (shoot 100,000 SQ FT before lunch and do it again every week for 6 months), you will want internal shooting with a 360º 1-click camera: not a rotator.

But, I digress ...

In this WGAN Forum discussion on Monday (30 July 2018), I list 30+ reasons why CUPIX versus Matterport:

CUPIX 3D Tour Platform versus Matterport 3D Tour Platform

The above discussion is a follow-up to my original WGAN Forum posts:

CUPIX Versus Matterport in AEC Space

Plus, here are all WGAN Forum posts tagged: CUPIX and Versus

As you can see from the above WGAN Forum discussions, your following short list has been address:Quote:
Originally Posted by @CFster
There are obviously quite a few options, but here’s what I’m looking for:

- 3D navigable “space” of the property
- Ability to make a teaser video of a guided tour (I believe this is important, as many of my clients post short walkthrough videos on social media)
- Tags
- Automatically generated floor plans with measurements
- The ability to backup the tour data locally
- Can I host the tour myself, instead of paying for cloud hosting? I have web space.


Please note that @PetraSoderling with Blue-Sketch can likely help you with CUPIX to 2D schematic floor plans.

I have not used 3DVista ... I will defer to @VTLV - and other WGAN Forum Members - to answers your questions.

Again, keep in mind, that the smallest market is those willing to pay top dollar for "Architectural Digest" level quality. In residential real estate, the money to be made is in value pricing for the average size homes in your market.

Since you are already a residential real estate photographer, you will know best what your Clients will want (though not likely to know how much they will pay until you actually ask for pre-orders or orders).

Ask for the money now: don't ask if you are willing to pay "X dollars" ... You will likely get two entirely different answers (and WGAN Forum Members can attest to).

Follow-up questions?

Best,

Dan
Post 10 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@CFster

By the way ...

You might ask your Matterport sales person to reply to my comments:

---

As a professional real estate photographer, it is unlikely that you will be happy with Matterport because:

✓ There is no practical Matterport backup and restore feature.
✓ While you “own” the copyright; that’s misleading. You do not have control your digital assets
✓ You can not host locally
✓ Matterport does not offer a white-label solution: the Matterport logo is everywhere, including “your” 2D floor plans
✓ Many WGAN Forum posts about Matterport sales targeting your clients (example) (example)
✓ Investment in a proprietary gear and platform
✓ You will not be happy with the workflow, delivery, post production (not RAW) or quality of snapshots from the Matterport Camera
✓ Matterport as a competitor (example) (example) (example)
✓ Exception: if you have (enough) Clients specifically requesting Matterport (though, as you have experienced, Matterport is obsessed with selling camera: not growing the market

---

I would be curious how they reply? Professional real estate photographers like you are great potential Clients of Matterport, if they could make these objections go away.

Best,

Dan
Post 11 IP   flag post
CFster private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod

I might post those questions to her. I did ask her about the RAW files and her answer was that I can edit snapshots like any other image file. Perhaps she doesn’t understand what a RAW file is.

So, I think given your advice I’m going to go with another solution than Matterport. At least until that aspect of my business grows enough to justify the cost.

I think the big stumbling block is marketing, as you say. Every realtor has heard of Matterport. Nobody has heard of Cupix or any of the others, which will raise the following questions:

1. Why aren’t you using Matterport? (the answer that it costs ME less isn’t acceptable...)

2. If it costs less, is it inferior?
Post 12 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@CFster

Using our virtual tour solution, we can help you:

✓ get more listing appointments
✓ win more listings
✓ get bigger, premium listings
✓ do this more often

We can help you double your income in 12 months (calculator)

When a real estate agent pitches a potential home seller, the seller is not going to say, "I want Matterport" (see my previous post that Matterport is focused on selling Cameras: not increasing the market. Just imagine if Matterport marketed to home sellers to ask specifically for Matterport brand virtual tours.)

The home seller is going to say, yes. BTW, even Matterport says only 5 percent of real estate listings are using Matterport, so the market is still wide open.

About your answers (above):

1. Why aren’t you using Matterport? (the answer that it costs ME less isn’t acceptable...)
2. If it costs less, is it inferior?

The answers need to be about what's in it for the real estate agent: not about you. If pressed, you can still say something like, we want to include your logo: not the Matterport logo. End of discussion, whom should I make the check payable to.

Best,

Dan
Post 13 IP   flag post
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VTLV private msg quote post Address this user
1. Why aren’t you using Matterport?

2. If it costs less, is it inferior?

A: Ever have a great photo you upload to Facebook and the quality gets washed out? Same thing happens when I pull a 360 out of Matterports servers. With this guy, I have more control for quality, editing and hosting.

I like @Dans idea of trying out Cupix for 6 months with your Standard Plan and test the waters.

I have issues with people thinking I'm an instant pro because I got a big lens on my DSLR along with a big Matterport camera. Add a battery grip and their jaw is on the floor. Walk in with a Ricoh and get a smirk of; "well this is going to be interesting, let's see what you can do with that".

Makes you want to hand them your DSLR and have them take shot saying you'll take a great shot because it's a big camera right? Then you shoot with it and point out how crappy their shot was. I need to make some kind of big housing for the small 360 and see what the response is.
Post 14 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
I've use 3D Vista for 2 years now and I can tell you there is nothing that compares to it if you really use all of its functionally. You can create a VT’s that looks and feels just like MP with hotspots and even turn items in you photos into hotspots which can launch anything. You can drop in any image you want or blur an image. You have complete control of every pano. To top it off you can do the same magic with 360 videos, try that with MP.

Yes you need a DSLR and a good 8mm lens as well as a pano head, there are even auto pano heads Even with an auto pano head the complete setup is still cheaper than the MP camera. And the big plus is you can shoot in HDR and RAW at the same time which is what I do for my clients. Once you get your head around Vista you won’t look back.

Best of luck in your journey into VT and VR production.
Gary
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