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GeoCVWGANTV

WGAN-TV: Matterport Versus GeoCV6130

WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user

Video: A NYC Penthouse 3D Tour powered by GeoCV. After three months, this video has been viewed 16,400 times. Video Courtesy of GeoCV Vimeo Channel


Video: GeoCV Product Demo - Mobile App for 3D Capturing the World | Video Courtesy of GeoCV YouTube Channel

Hi All,

If you look at a GeoCV created 3D Tour, on first glance, you might be thinking that you are looking at a Matterport Spaces 3D Tour:

✓ Dollhouse View
✓ Floor Plan View (with measurements)
✓ Walk Around View
✓ Photos
✓ Floor Plans

And, this tour was shot using an (extra smart) 3D-enabled smartphone.

On WGAN-TV Live at 5 (5 pm EST GMT -5) on Wednesday, 17 January 2018, CEO and Co-Founder @AntonYakubenko, PhD will demo and discuss GeoCV; including Matterport Versus GeoCV.

You can Join the Virtual Studio Audience to ask Anton questions directly.

Anton is one of the speakers at Inman Connect NYC 2018 (22-26 January 2018). He is on a panel: Visual Revolution: Breakthroughs in Virtual Reality 3D and Video. [Matterport CEO Bill Brown is on the same panel.)

I could imagine that Anton might give us a sneak peak of what he will announce at Inman Connect.

So, why have you not heard about GeoCV? They have been focused on New York City while they have been refining their technology, value-proposition and marketing strategy. I could imagine that Inman Connect, Anton will announce that GeoCV is now available across the United States (and potentially, around the globe).

Here are We Get Around Network Forum discussions tagged: GeoCV

Some additional backstory from Anton's LinkedIn Profile:

"GeoCV is a venture capital backed 3D capturing VR / AR company. Our vision is to enable everyone to capture the world in 3D with a phone and share it in virtual and augmented reality. We're currently using 3D camera-enabled Google Tango phones.

3D virtual tours for real estate is our beachhead market. We allow agents and brokerages differentiate themselves to win more listings and get more referrals, attract more qualified leads to their listings to sell faster spending less time on unpromising in-person showings. We've developed an advanced automated technology for providing unique 3D virtual tours, photography and floor plans at the highest quality and at an affordable price."

Source: GeoCV Co-Founder and CEO Anton Yakubenko LinkedIn Profile

About GeoCV (Source)

GeoCV was founded by 3D computer vision veterans with 12 years experience in the industry. They’ve worked with Samsung and Align Technology and have a strong track record of building successful companies.

GeoCV is backed by five venture capital firms including Rothenberg Ventures, the most active investor in virtual reality.

--

GeoCV has raised $2.5+ million in venture capital, according to Crunchbase



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WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Moved from a related discussion ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Metroplex360
Can't wait to watch the show with Anton from GeoCV -- can't wait to see what they've been up to!


Dan
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user
I like what I see. Yesterday I said that it would be months, a year or two until a new competitor arrives, but it seems it is already here!

I really hope they don´t screw it with the business model...

quoting Chris on this "Can´t wait to watch the show with Anton..."
Post 3 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Hi All,

From a related WGAN Forum discussion ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Metroplex360
...

GeoCV is cool. Their product looks like a copycat product -- however, I believe that the genius behind what they are doing is looking for an alternate way to solve the same problem. It's the whole Apple/PC thing where even in the little details accomplishing the same end result requires thinking differently and offering a compelling alternative.

...
Post 4 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Hi All,

Matterport versus GeoCV - today (Wednesday, 17 January 2018) on WGAN-TV Live at 5. That's 5 pm EST | GMT -5). See a demo and discussion with the CEO and Co-Founder of GeoCV Anton Yakubenko.

Best,

Dan
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WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user

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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user
Not impressed at all. The video was interrupted at 1h 15´but I think that I have listeded to the most important part.

They are not offering solutions to the things that some of us critizice about Matterport's business model. Besides the possibility of a non-brand solution (at a cost, apparently) the rest is the same.

I still get a link and not files (so I have to pay hosting)
I still have a subscription service

But in this case the company that sells the technology is also offering the service! Are they out of their minds!

I have had enough with Matterport trying to sell cameras to my customers, to now have a supplier that could eventualy go after my clients to do their models...

And there is another thing, that is not a small one: they are using a regular mobile phone to capture the images, with all sorts of Frankenstein style attachments (the prototype looks horrible by the way, but it is a prototype, so we should wait for the final version).

You cannot step into your customer's home and take out a regular mobile phone from your pocket to do a "professional job".

You need to pretend that you are using very complex and sofisticated stuff to charge what you want to charge. If we were already crazy with Matterport saying "anybody can do it", imagine how it will perceived when your clients see you with a Samsung 8!

Just a short story: in the 90's Black & Decker was strugling in the power tools markets because their designs and colors were perceived as similar to the consumer tools. Repair men didn´t want to be seen with a Black & Decker because they were afraid that they couldn´t charge higher fees "using the same tools that any regular Joe would have in his garage". They needed something that meant Professional from each and every angle.

The solution? They created the DeWalt brand, in the classic Yellow color. The devices were the same, but now the new brand was targeted to the Pros and not to the consumers. Pros loved them, it was the opportunity to differentiate and to say: "Hey, I am using pro tools here. You cannot do what I do using the tool that you purchased in Walmart"

I hope I made my point here. In my case, if I want to charge $0.15 per sq ft, I cannot use an iPhone or a Samsung mobile. I need an unreasonable big and odd looking camera that shouts "the guy using this is a professional and to use this black piece of plastic with 6 lenses and 3 infrared sensors you need to be an specialist".

My summary, for what it worths: "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't"
Post 7 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user

WGAN-TV: Matterport versus GeoCV with GeoCV CEO and Co-Founder Anton Yakubenko, PhD

Hi All,

Above is the WGAN-TV show - WGAN-TV: Matterport versus GeoCV with GeoCV CEO and Co-Founder Anton Yakubenko, PhD

Hi @AntonYakubenko

Thank you for appearing on WGAN-TV Wednesday (17 January 2018).

Best,

Dan
Post 8 IP   flag post
GeoCV
Co-Founder
AntonYakubenko private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
I still get a link and not files (so I have to pay hosting)

You get the access to all the files and the right to use them whatever you like. In order to provide the best viewing experience to the end user we still recommend using our 3D viewer. And it could be downloaded altogether with the properly prepared content, and used offline - you get a ZIP archive, which you can unpack, and just run a file to start the viewer in Chrome without Internet connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
I still have a subscription service

The terms for service providers are TBD. What would be the perfect pricing model for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
But in this case the company that sells the technology is also offering the service! Are they out of their minds!

Would you say "no" to getting a sustainable flow of orders, say 2-3 per day, with a reasonable revenue sharing? Our current photographers don't need to care about customer acquisition, scheduling, post-production, customer support, billing, etc.

At the same time if you want to build your own business based on our solution it's an easy decision since it doesn't require any significant upfront investment. 95%+ of the market are currently not served by anyone, so it's not about competing for those <5% of the market, it's about untapping the potential of growing market share of listings in 3D to dozens percents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
You cannot step into your customer's home and take out a regular mobile phone from your pocket to do a "professional job".

We had zero problems with that so far while serving one of the most demanding markets in the world.
On the contrary, customers do appreciate the advancements of the technology and us leveraging the cutting-edge tech.

We've initially offered only DIY solution, but we've learned that there are 2 categories of customers -
some prefer service, some prefer DIY. The ones who prefer service don't care that much about the tools the service provider uses, they care more about the quality, price, turnaround time, behavior on site, communication before and after, etc. Wouldn't you use a smaller better mirrorless camera for regular still photography shoots just because it looks "less professional" than a DSLR monster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
Just a short story: in the 90's Black & Decker was strugling in the power tools markets because their designs and colors were perceived as similar to the consumer tools. Repair men didn´t want to be seen with a Black & Decker because they were afraid that they couldn´t charge higher fees "using the same tools that any regular Joe would have in his garage". They needed something that meant Professional from each and every angle.

The solution? They created the DeWalt brand, in the classic Yellow color. The devices were the same, but now the new brand was targeted to the Pros and not to the consumers. Pros loved them, it was the opportunity to differentiate and to say: "Hey, I am using pro tools here. You cannot do what I do using the tool that you purchased in Walmart"

Thanks for sharing the story, I enjoyed reading it! We both know one other company that also changed the colors from light blue to yellow-black
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Service
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonYakubenko
You get the access to all the files and the right to use them whatever you like...


AWESOME!

Sounds like GeoCV is not only providing a camera and a platform - but also acting as a sales agent for tours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonYakubenko
The terms for service providers are TBD. What would be the perfect pricing model for you?


Which brings me to the question -- does GeoCV intend on setting the prices for the tours they direct sell, and is that part of the marketing strategy?
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user
@AntonYakubenco, thank you very much for your detailed explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonYakubenko
it could be downloaded altogether with the properly prepared content, and used offline - you get a ZIP archive, which you can unpack, and just run a file to start the viewer in Chrome without Internet connection.


Probably I missed the part when you explained this.

I like the idea of having the files with me, particularly because some customers have repeatedly asked for this possibility and this is something that Matterport cannot offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonYakubenko
The terms for service providers are TBD. What would be the perfect pricing model for you?


I guess that if I can download the files and run them in my own server or even off line, then I shouldn't have to pay a monthly maintenance or hosting service. Am I right?

To be honest, I don´t find Matterport pricing per model a bad one.

My main concern is that after paying for processing I still have to keep paying to maintain my content which, by the way, I never really own. I am attached to Matterport's risk for life, and this is not good.

I will confess something here: even though I am a pragmatic agnostic, every night before going to bed I make a prayer and ask God for Matterport to be alive the next morning, because my business depends on it.

So, if you charge me 20 dollars per model, or even 30, I would pay for it without complaints if, at the same time, I don´t have to pay for a monthly hosting fee and if, at the same time, my business (my models) don´t depend on your business success, in the same way that my photos don´t depend on Nikon's survival.

So, this is what I would like:

- A Beginners plan: pay as you go ($x per model)
- Intermediate plan: $z dollars per 5 models per month, or something like this
- Professional plan: the same but more money and more models (individual price decreases per model because you process more models per month)
- and so on.

Hosting: for those who want to host with you, then a montly hosting plan depending on the number of models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonYakubenko
Would you say "no" to getting a sustainable flow of orders, say 2-3 per day, with a reasonable revenue sharing? Our current photographers don't need to care about customer acquisition, scheduling, post-production, customer support, billing, etc.


The way you ask sounds like those agents selling time-share rentals: "would you say no to save all those hotel rates when you go on vacation?"

This is my position: I don´t like the idea of my technology provider doing business in my part of the value chain. I am a little pricky when it comes to my personal space.

I think that either you are in the business of providing the most wonderful technology for 3d modeling or you are in the business of capturing and processing 3D models. If you want to do both it will cause problems sooner or later.

Consider this: if you set up a reference price, you will force me to imitate your pricing, or even reduce it. Even if I am in a different geographic zone, simply because you are the "official provider". I don´t like the MSRP idea.

It is tempting to capture more value from the value chain, but I don´t see the Fender Musical Instruments Corporation running rock bands all around the globe. They designed and manufacture the Stratocaster, but they let Eric Clapton to play it.

Put your efforts in what you call the DIY scheme and start growing worldwide. You will be a lot better and sooner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonYakubenko
We had zero problems with that so far while serving one of the most demanding markets in the world.
On the contrary, customers do appreciate the advancements of the technology and us leveraging the cutting-edge tech.


It all depends on who your customer is.

Anyway, it makes no sense to discuss this because your product has been already designed.

I think that you are OK if yours is a consumer product, like the Theta is for 360 photography, but if you are targeting the professional market you will have to work a lot to convince us to go out there with a Samsung 8 in our pocket.

It takes courage to use a mobile phone in front of a customer and charge him $0.15 per square foot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonYakubenko
Wouldn't you use a smaller better mirrorless camera for regular still photography shoots just because it looks "less professional" than a DSLR monster?


Yes for "regular" photography, but we are talking professional here. More than that, we are talking "looking like a pro" here.

Please read all the comments in the forum when Matterport advertised how easy and simple it was to operate a Matterport, or when Google promoted the Google Street View service with a video showing that the job could be done in 5 minutes with a couple of shots!

Finally, I would like to understand in which business do you think you are so In can decide if your proposal is for me and people like me:

1)Is it making 3D models?
2)Is it selling fantastic hardware and software for creating the most amazing 3D models?
3)Is it becoming the cheap version of Matterport, something like offering Panasonic to those that cannot afford a real Sony?

It it is 1) and 3), then I am not your guy.

But if it is the number 2), then I would love to know more about GeoCV.

All the best.
Post 11 IP   flag post
GeoCV
Co-Founder
AntonYakubenko private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroplex360
Which brings me to the question -- does GeoCV intend on setting the prices for the tours they direct sell, and is that part of the marketing strategy?

We're in the process of figuring out the best model for all the parties in the deal - the customer, the photographer, and us. So far it seems that some customers don't care who provides the service if the service is consistently great and expect rate card pricing for this, but some want to work with particular photographers and eager to pay premium for that, and even want to have combined service from two providers, like photos from one photographer, 3D tour from another. We don't see ourselves as a competitor to any professional photographer or service provider, rather we want to partner at reasonable terms for all the parties to maximize the market share of spaces in 3D while leaving enough margins for both us and service providers.
Post 12 IP   flag post
GeoCV
Co-Founder
AntonYakubenko private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
So, this is what I would like:

- A Beginners plan: pay as you go ($x per model)
- Intermediate plan: $z dollars per 5 models per month, or something like this
- Professional plan: the same but more money and more models (individual price decreases per model because you process more models per month)
- and so on.

Hosting: for those who want to host with you, then a montly hosting plan depending on the number of models.

Sounds very reasonable to me. And I totally feel your frustration with being dependent on another company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
Finally, I would like to understand in which business do you think you are so In can decide if your proposal is for me and people like me:

1)Is it making 3D models?
2)Is it selling fantastic hardware and software for creating the most amazing 3D models?
3)Is it becoming the cheap version of Matterport, something like offering Panasonic to those that cannot afford a real Sony?

GeoCV is a 3D capturing reality tech company. With our Virtual Open House product we want to see as many spaces in 3D as possible while keeping healthy margins for us and service providers. We're looking for the best way to implement this. We're very customer oriented and trying to understand deeply the roots of market wants and needs. I wish we could just provide the technology to service providers, but it feels that it won't move the needle further enough, since even far more adopted professional photography hasn't captured really large market share. So we are willing to join forces with pros to service existing clientele better, to grow the mutual business further, while introducing a different business model to untap the market segment not yet served by anyone. There is so much business to be made, let's capture it instead of focusing on competition for scraps.

I personally don't believe in artificial barriers like companies intentionally not selling virtual tours solutions to brokers, or limiting the amount of photographers in a particular area, or selling hardware way more expensive than it should cost, because if not GeoCV then someone else would introduce a better solution and a better business model. This progress cannot be stopped. Better and less expensive hardware would continuously appear. More efficient business models for the customers, who pay the money and dictate the market terms, would appear. The ones who relied on virtual constraints and didn't bring sustainable differentiated value would parish. Others would continue and even grow their business if they adopt to the changing market. If it makes economical sense for an agent with a volume to buy a camera and shoot herself, she'll find a solution - not one camera, then another. If a brokerage can hire a kid out of college to do just the same 3D tours as pro would provide, they would do it. But there are still many problems to solve and much value to either get or lose, so there is always a potential for professional services.

There are companies providing 3D tour services for free at all given they monetize the content differently. And given the recent news: https://www.inman.com/2018/01/18/zillow-unveils-new-app-for-capturing-3-d-home-tours/ all service providers could start worrying "what if agents could get 3D tours for free?". Especially if we jump into 2019 when according to rumors iPhone with an embedded 3D camera comes out. By evolving and constantly providing added value we all could stay and grow the business. By constructing temporal artificial barriers we only postpone inevitable changes in the tech and the market.
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you Anton

I see your point and I understand your position. I agree with you in that artificial barriers are going to dissapear sooner or later.

The business is evolving and it means that we will have to evolve as well.

In the end, all kinds of intermediation will dissapear and unless we, as professionals, can find a way to add value to the process, the simple and easy task of pressing a button will not justify our existence.

I remember a friend of mine that instead of hiring a professional photographer for his wedding, purchased 50 or 60 disposable cameras (it was way before the digital photography entered into the market) and asked his guests to take as many photos as they whish. After the party one person collected the disposable cameras and the films were developed. No photographer, no nothing, just a bunch of very funny and memorable photos of a unique night for him and his wife.

What I mean is that as long as the necessary technology becomes ubiquous and less expensive, the role of "tech services provider" be it a Matterport Service Provider or a GeoCV Services Provider will have to do a step back and give place to the consumer doing it by himself.

For what I see your technology is going in that direction and I see it as a good idea.

That´s why I wondered "who your customer is", and I feel that although I, and others like me, could be your next customers, inevitably your final customer will be the end user and not the pros.

Please keep us posted with your advances and let me wish you all the luck in this business venture.
Post 14 IP   flag post
GeoCV
Co-Founder
AntonYakubenko private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
That´s why I wondered "who your customer is", and I feel that although I, and others like me, could be your next customers, inevitably your final customer will be the end user and not the pros.

My current understanding of the market tells me that at all times there would be 2 categories of end customers - some would want DIY, some would want a service. I think it's not a matter of the accessibility of technology alone, but the mindset of "what is my business and what's not". I don't see many of our customers, doing any capturing of visuals by themselves no matter what. They are get just used to hire people to do service for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
Please keep us posted with your advances and let me wish you all the luck in this business venture.

Thank you! And good luck to you too!
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WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Hi All,

We go live shortly ...

Dan
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WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
We are live from Inman Connect. Panel coming up shortly....
Post 17 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user

WGAN-TV Live from Inman Connect - Matterport CEO Bill Brown and GeoCV Co-Founder Anton Yakubenko, PhD

Hi All,

Here is the video from Inman Connect NY 2018 session featuring Matterport CEO Bill Brown and GeoCV Co-Founder Anton Yakubenko, PhD.

Best,

Dan
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