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$49 for OBJ File Thank You Matterport6066

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RPOceanic private msg quote post Address this user
It seems the issue is the short term vision that seems to plague our society in general. A lack of long-term thinking/a sustainable model. MP seems to be intent on utilizing any increased capability/value in their product to squeeze more from the clients they already have, rather than leveraging it to sell the utility of MP in attracting a much wider adaptation. (more from a few rather some from many) With their subscription model, adding adaptors, making Matterport THE universal solution is where it's at!

Just when I am seeing great possibilities collaborating with/promoting 3rd party risk takers who have enabled this tool in many ways regarding AEC... MP makes a move taking what little meat was on the bones for a MSP. Please help us help you... INCENTIVIZE & ENABLE MSPs... your greatest ally to go out and pitch you Matterport!
Post 26 IP   flag post
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
Perhaps I am not seeing the value in the new MatterPak and that´s why I am too critic, but my feeling is that the community was waiting for a different thing from MP. More openess, more third party involvement and the hope of amazing new features coming from a vibrant and very smart community of developers.


If you use the OBJ file controversy to gauge how 2018 is going to be - you're setting pretty low expectations and will be quite pleased

The nail hasn't been put in the coffin concerning MatterPak and OBJ files. I'd like to believe that they are intending to stop producing the OBJ files that we've been downloading and have been working on generating better ones -- after all, the textures that are used by the OBJ file aren't even close to what they could/should be.

Amazing new features? 2018 is going to be hot.

#1) Matterport GSV (In private beta / ironing out some bugs)
#2) RoOomie Partnership (Announced)
#3) Mattertags for VR (Announced WIP)
#4) Matterport SDK - (re: Hexagon, RoOomie, AEC partnerships, Leica)

There are also new things coming for Showcase, Workshop and Capture in the works -- lots of initiatives mentioned in previous user surveys that are taking shape.

On Openness -- Matterport is moving towards more transparency. They've been announcing features earlier and earlier in newsletters and even announcing when things have gone into testing.
Post 27 IP   flag post
MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user
@Metroplex360 I completely agree with you.

And I would like to add

#5) Matterpak

as one of the amazing new features for 2018.

All of the features #1 to #5 have a tremendous business potential for all MSPs out there.

And if Matterport decides to leave the low res obj for free download, it will be a perfect start for 2018
Post 28 IP   flag post
Mimax_Solutions_Ltd private msg quote post Address this user
As a company we purchased the Matterport camera primarily for the obj files….the obj is used in conjunction with our existing measuring equipment and software. ( Flexijet / Flexicad... )


The processing fee of £20 per project was peletable for the obj, now being charged £70 per project for the obj …. Little harder to swallow…..
Post 29 IP   flag post
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
@Mimax_Solutions_Ltd You are the exact type of user that I am most concerned about with this move. It effects you in a much larger capacity than others.
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DannyBasting private msg quote post Address this user
Here are my thoughts on it from an AEC and 3rd party service provider point of view..

Due to this announcement, I will be forced to change my pricing and rethink which of my services I will continue to provide.

For example: Right now I offer a low cost OBJ to SketchUp conversion for $25.95USD (after the 15% WGAN discount for Basic, Standard and Premium Members has been applied). Due to the way the OBJ file is generated, and the limitation that come along with that, I can't justify a large price increase on this service. If a client has to pay another 49,-USD just to get the OBJ file, I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

That being said, those of you that have seen my posts might know that I've never been much of a fan of the OBJ file, due to its for mentioned limitations. I prefer to make my own 3D geometry which is easily editable and can be exported to numerous applications for a lot of different use cases. This requires a pointcloud file to be used as an underlayment however. Which brings me to my next point I suppose..

Now I am going to have to buy a package of which I only require the XYZ pointcloud file. Granted that $49.-USD is only a fraction of the costs of an AEC project, it annoys me that it is an unnecessary expense.

If only we where just given the option to process the RAW data ourselves using Autodesk Recap or Meshlab for example... Not only would we no longer have to wait for both the tour and the AEC files to be processed (which is a big deal in the AEC world, since time is of the essence), but it would also mean that a lot of unnecessary processing could be avoided. Yes, it's an automated process, but it still requires server to generate those files(that almost nobody needs), while they could be put to better use. Faster tour processing for example? Not that I see this happening any time soon, it's still a high priority on my wishlist.

As for the upcoming Matterport features, they seem great for the real estate market. As for the AEC market, while there have been some announcements and examples in this field, I haven't been very impressed with these so far. Not to be negative, but Matterport is a Real estate market tool first, the AEC aspect of it is just a side product. It still allows me to work faster compared to measuring by hand, which saves me time, hence money in the end.

I will however keep my eyes out on upcoming laser scanners for a reasonable price, as that will allow for more accurate pointcloud generation. I have high hopes from what I've seen so far from sample data for upcoming equipment.
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WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@DannyBasting

Thanks for the backstory ...

Too bad that MatterPak pricing may force you to look at alternate solutions for capturing point clouds.

Best,

Dan
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WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user



WGAN-TV: WGAN-TV MatterPak Bundle Roundtable With You

Hi All,

Matterport announced MatterPak Bundle for $49 (please see above).

There has already been some heated commentary on this topic in the We Get Around Network Forum (tagged: MatterPak) What are your thoughts about the services offered in the MatterPak Bundle and pricing? And, how does this news affect you?

On WGAN-TV Live at 5 (5 pm EST | GMT -5) today (Thursday), 11 January 2018 ...

WGAN-TV MatterPak Bundle Roundtable (With You)

Want to join-in? Please Private Message (PM) me for the Join the MatterPak Bundle Roundtable Sign-Up Link (free for WGAN Forum Members).

Hi Matterport,

You're welcome to join the WGAN-TV MatterPak Bundle Roundtable too. Please Private Message me as well.

Best,

Dan

P.S. WGAN Forum Members are welcome to join the virtual studio audience to participate in the discussion.
Post 33 IP   flag post
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
I predict a change in policy concerning the OBJ file. There are a lot of directions that this can go in.
Post 34 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user

Video: WGAN-TV Matterport MatterPak Roundtable

Thanks to the roundtable participants ...

@grmgrl | Simon Williams with Simon's 3D Tour Galleries in Bloomington, IL
@DannyBasting | Founder of InventiveCG in The Netherlands
@Jfantin Founder of PhiSigma Interactive, LLC in Buenos Aires
@Metroplex360 | Chris Hickman, Founder of Metroplex360 (and MP2SV) in Dallas

Best,

Dan
Post 35 IP   flag post
grmngrl private msg quote post Address this user
@Metroplex360 unless MP does open up to welcome 3rd party developers it is doomed to fail in one point.
Post 36 IP   flag post
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
@grmngrl Why?
Post 37 IP   flag post
grmngrl private msg quote post Address this user
@Metroplex360 Really???? You of all the smart people have to ask me that? What happened to Sony, Blackberry, Nokia and all the other proprietary systems that have failed as business model vs Apple that took full advantage of the knowledge of developers? What would the iPhone be without the apps?

We would have another blackberry... Hahahaha
Post 38 IP   flag post
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
@grmngrl So in this scenario, Matterport fails because another company offers a superior product that includes a 3rd party marketplace...?

I had a more lengthy response to you, but settled on the one word answer.

Honestly, I've realized with Matterport that the most disappointing thing with them is WAITING for them to release things. It's not if, it's when. And that's true with most things... it's difficult to wait. I imagine for you guys its harder to wait too when there's been no guarantees or announcements.

So I'll announce something that I think everyone already knows -

Matterport has an SDK and will release it publically when it's ready.

Hexagon use SDK v1.0 for Showcase v2.0.

Matterport's public SDK will be released for Showcase v3.0. Showcase v3.0 was built from the ground up in order to power the SDK for both internal projects and for 3rd party support.
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroplex360
@grmngrl So in this scenario, Matterport fails because another company offers a superior product that includes a 3rd party marketplace...?


Chris, I would say that Matterport will fail if and when another competitor finds a new and disruptive value proposition associated to a better business model.

As we discussed many times, there is a series of issues that we don´t swallow easily:

- Property of content
- Forced hosting in their servers and not being able to store our raw material out of our iPads
- Excessive use of Matterport branding
- Matterport dubious marketing strategy targetting our own customer base (please never forget that. I could forgive, but I will never forget)

Besides that, there are thechnical issues such as capturing speed (improved lately, but still slow when compared to another method).
In fact, the capturing speed and Matterport scanning technique is something that will conspire against its suceess in the GSV business for some markets (I explain: to publish a shop, with my Iris360 I simply take a few panos and that´s it, but with Matterport I have to scan the whole place or else I will get an aligning error, meaning that I will have to take more panos than with an Iris...this is something that we should consider and discuss when Matterport announces its pricing scheme for GSV)

There are a few options out there about to be announced and perhaps this will serve as a wake up call for Matterport.
Post 40 IP   flag post
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
@jfantin - I always appreciate your posts here and appreciate 'if/when' statements. I'm a programmer at heart!

I believe that there is validity to all of your points. I also believe that these points matter many, but not all users and that the options provided are more than sufficient for many of the MSPs.

If you don't mind, as you directed this at me, I'll attempt to provide my personal feelings on these points below. Hopefully this isn't combed through looking for arguments as I'm sure there are holes in my logic here and there.

Property of Content

I have crusaded for freeing the panos in the past. My main reason for wanting the panos was in order to post to GSV. Now that this has been provided, I no longer have a need for all of the panos. This being said, I believe that it would be nice for them to provide them as part of MatterPak or allow downloading at full advertised quality (16384 x 8192) at either a different SAAS tier, or ala carte.

As for other content -- Showcase belongs to Matterport and I do not believe that Matterport need to provide a downloadable copy along with all tour assets that would allow offline used via a browser.

If you could have all of the components that make up Showcase, what would you do with them? I know how to extract all of the contents that Showcase uses. I can't really build a new player. There have been a few people who have either built a player or ripped off the player. None offer superior performance or features beyond what Matterport are offering in their player.

BTW - Matterport do not have our panoramas. They have our cube faces -- but they would need to batch convert them to equirectagular projections (panospheres) if they were to distribute them -- which would eat up a massive amount of storage space -- or incur a need for processing power, which incurs cloud processing fees. No clue what those fees would be for them -- not really the point I'm trying to make.

I am -happy- that we CAN download the entire tour experience for offline use via the Matterport Showcase iOS app. I believe that this is a VERY good way to solve this problem. It is my hope that they will support Android with Matterport Showcase for Android. With that, there are a number of Android emulators available that will run on desktop so that an offline kiosk-like scenario can be achieved (without using iPads).

#2a) Forced Hosting in their Servers

Well, technically content is stored on Amazon and distributed via Fastly CDN. We are forced to pay for hosting -- hostages as you say.

I have only paid hosting once. One time. Every month since September 2015, I have scanned the minimum # of scans that Matterport's SAAS plan subsidizes at a discount. I was worried at first that I would lose value and not reach this goal and be stuck paying a hosting fee for a month with only a few scans.

I imagine that others have this issue and end up coughing up $50/mo for nothing. This is rather sad as there's not value there for them. Did you know that Matterport have actually reached out to MSPs and connected people wishing to close their accounts with other MSPs to ask if they would like to accept the models into their hosting and privately work out a deal? Kind of crazy as it doesn't financially help them at all. I've picked up 2 of these. I'm more than willing to assist anyone here (but only if you have Standard membership of course!)

Now on the flipside of this too - some MSPs CHARGE their clients hosting. They in essence hold their clients hostage and profit from them and join along in the pyramid scheme. I do not charge my clients hosting as I don't want to hold anyone hostage. I've run a web hosting company since 2003 and have hosting residuals trickling in from there and even felt a bit guilty about that, thus bundle in superhero support (1hr/month) with the paltry hosting fees (as yearly hosting is worth about an hour to two of developer time).

So looking at it that way, what do you get from hosting? You do get the subsidized processing rates... you do get access to Matterport's support ... the MSP program including referrals (of which at least *3* have turned into paying jobs ... which ... completely subsidized my hosting further) ... support ... and any resources Matterport have. Plus, free updates to Showcase and Workshop... and subsidized rates on Floorplans (because $15/floorplan still doesn't make sense).

So ... hostage? Perhaps by the root of the word, but I don't think it's such a hostile place to be held.

BTW - Matterport are starting to charge for overage past 300 now. That's sort-of/kind-of-a-bummer - however, I've enjoyed being over the limit for a while and that grace period was nice!

#2b) Not being able to store our RAW material out of our iPads

Amir Frank, Matterport's "President of Freaking Amazing Customer Support", wrote an article on Matterport's forum a while back providing direct instructions on how to export the RAW information from one's iPad using desktop software. I asked the question: 'But isn't this a TOS violation?' and well ... apparently not

The only reason one would want to store the RAW material out of the iPad would be for backing up data. Matterport have (I believe) given a name to this requested feature, indicating that it's coming, in one of their recent surveys. If memory serves, they called it 'Cloud Restore' -- as they themselves keep a backup of all of the RAW data and have the ability to reprocess it manually for debugging reasons... they keep a friggin pile of data...

Which goes back to their cloud hosting -- you would not believe how much stuff they host for each scene ... a lot of redundant data for sure... if they NEEDED to, they could reprocess EVERYONE's tours.

#3) Excessive use of Matterport Branding

I'm of the belief that I'm stronger in providing a trusted brand. While you may laugh at the word 'trusted' - I think it's relative. I do not trust Google, but I use their products and believe that there's integrity in the quality of MANY of their products. I also know that I can sell solutions to people that rely on Google's services with much more confidence than selling something proprietary. Thus, I'm quite happy to sell a product that has the backing of a large company.

Now, if this is just preference as to 'excessive' -- such as logos being too big, or not being allowed a custom domain so that the Sharing links don't say 'my.matterport.com' or whatever... I mean... that's where Ross Peterson makes his $ to go skiing with, right? Turn sharing off and use WP3D Models... use QuickStart... and that eliminates much of the branding.

Another note too - Showcase v3.0 eliminates the "Are you out of your mind" black bar at the bottom that I raised a stink about a while back. I am absolutely mindblown concerning this. And the floorplan button is back! I wrote a stinky response to the Showcase v2.0 announcement when that icon disappeared. Could not be more thrilled either.

Oh, and in Showcase v2 - they went so far as to make the UI disappear while navigating.

So, personally, I think that 'excessive' is too strong a word here. I understand that everyone's comfort level is different - but it could be truly excessive... like a nasty spinning logo on start up and a voice saying 'MATTERPORT!' at the start of each tour. Ick!

#4) Dubious Marketing Strategy

I enjoy that people still post their individual suspicions and complaints concerning this. I think it's important to keep any company in check - and WGA is a great place for that.

This is a monolithic topic and honestly, I don't have too much experience with sales. It is my belief that they operate quite separately from Matterport's Development and overall company management... they are located over 1000 miles away from Matterport's HQ.

I have my own story here and it was resolved amicably and I still have my large client. I was outraged and really there was no reason to be as there was a big pie, I kept my slice, and the client loves the overall arrangement and allows regionals to make their own decisions. Yay for that.

So I guess, this differs from person to person. Have you felt that Matterport stepped on your toes? Did you lose money? Have you also gained from Matterport in another area? Did Matterport do this knowingly? Who at Matterport did this? Does that person represent Matterport or their own interests? Should that person be reported? Should Matterport disclose any disciplinary action if any happened at all?

Lots of questions there. I think that it is VERY good to contact Matterport directly with any of these concerns as my experience has been positive in doing so.

#5a) Capturing Speed

Considering we're capturing a 3D Mesh and as mentioned, Fast Capture is now out -- I don't think that it's slow. LEICA BLK360 is 3 minutes per scan and I'm not about to discredit their system for that.

#5b) Technique

If 'technique' means the manner by which Matterport scanning actually works --

Matterport have spoken highly of LIDAR scanning and are open to using the tech in the future if and when the technology becomes affordable. The BLK360 partnership is a bold move to embracing other scanning techniques.

#5c) vs Iris360 for lack of needing to align

Just use 360 Mode and you don't need to worry about alignment. Export the panos via 360 Captures, or publish to GSV and export those panos.

But here's something else to consider -- if you scan with the Iris360 -- your tours will not be able to take advantage of Google Street View VR-Ready when it comes out... and that's something to consider.

I hate to say it, but since GSV is unmoderated largely now, you can post panos to a 'secret business' that you know of .. some place no one is looking, extract all of your panos, then delete. Kind of cool.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
There are a few options out there about to be announced and perhaps this will serve as a wake up call for Matterport.


I don't think Matterport need a wake up call -- they are wide awake and running on all cylinders. Fast Capture, Showcase 3 and GSV are big deals -- and there's so much more that is being worked on and it's going to exponentially increase this year as 3rd parties jump into the fray.

When it comes to other platforms -- at least those that I'm aware of are trailing far behind Matterport in being Matterport. I am a huge fan of seeing competition in the marketplace from services that offer unique value propositions.

iGuide is something that I think is quite cool. I love the detailed information they provide and the company itself is run by some amazing, passionate people. It's a different product and one that I sincerely hope to see some huge innovations from moving forward in order to stay competitive.

GeoCV is cool. Their product looks like a copycat product -- however, I believe that the genius behind what they are doing is looking for an alternate way to solve the same problem. It's the whole Apple/PC thing where even in the little details accomplishing the same end result requires thinking differently and offering a compelling alternative.

Cupix is amazing. They have photogrametry down like no one's business. Want to create a 3D tour without a 3D camera and customize tons of things? Sometimes, half of the options seem like alpha/beta tests -- and the UI has so many options that it's a bit intimidating. Features before functionality at times -- but overall, my experience was nothing short of thrilling. I can't believe what they are quietly accomplishing in building a unique platform.

I'm sure I left out some shout-outs. But do these companies pose a threat to Matterport? Hopefully not -- because I don't think that gunning for Matterport is a good strategy for development of a product. Matterport wasn't developed to outdo anyone.

I think that if we see an idea such as 360 Video capture translate into 3D models with advanced features that fix painpoints coming out of left field from a provider large enough to support such technology --- who aggressively markets their platform it in order to gain traction in the marketplace and serves a community to the extent that Matterport does -- well, then we have a VERY viable alternative that might well be worth exploring, participating with, or even swapping over to.

I quietly think Matterport are keeping their eyes open and their ears tuned to any rumblings going on. They are also capable of adopting new ideas and going in different directions to continue to make their 3D tour platform into a ubiquitous experience on the web.

--

I want a Matty award for longest post about Matterport on a non-Matterport owned channel.
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroplex360
@grmngrl So in this scenario, Matterport fails because another company offers a superior product that includes a 3rd party marketplace...?

I had a more lengthy response to you, but settled on the one word answer.


BTW, I reread this (wrote it while scanning earlier today) - and I wanted to make sure that this wasn't perceived as being snarky -- I wasn't trying to be -- I just felt that it would be worth asking for clarity.
Post 42 IP   flag post
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leonvanzweel private msg quote post Address this user
@Metroplex360 A well-reasoned response. Most people do not understand the level of R&D involved (and Testing)in developing a NEW technology. The MATTERPORT brand is being developed and has gained traction as a market leader in this technology. Any new technology will have to brand build to acquire market acceptance. That is a long and hard road.
Post 43 IP   flag post
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user
@Metroplex360, thank you for your long reply. I certainly will vote you for the Matty award in the category of "Long posts about Matterport on a non-Matterport owned channel"

You deserve that and much more because your contributions to this community are fantastic and add a lot of value.

First of all, let me tell you that I too believe that Matterport technology is amazing, and that´s why I use it. I know, as @leonvanzweel says, that there is a great level of R&D involved. But that doesn´t mean that I should graciously accept everything Matterport wants to give me under the terms that they decide.

I am not a believer, I am just a client who wants to keep its freedom of chcice and who is always looking for better alternatives.

Full disclosure here: I don´t give a damm about Matterport, honestly. I don´t owe them anything and I will chose another alternative as soon as I see the new alternative is better. It is like having a car, a computer or a pair of shoes.

It is them who have to fight for my preferences.

I truly care about my customers and how to serve them better, because it is them, and not Matterport, who pay my bills.

So far, I have to admit, Matterport has offered a wonderful product. And my customers like it, although they are not entirely happy. Why is that? well, some of them would preffer to have the models stored in their own servers (the feel that if they pay a lot of money, a "link" is not enough as a deliverable, and there are also concerns about Matterport's continuity and the risk associated to their models).

Don´t you feel nervous when you receive just a link? And don´t you feel nervous when you receive a warning if you want to use the images and content in a way that doesn´t please Matterport?

There are many things to comment and unfortunately not too much time to do it, but let me give my points of view in a couple of things, with the intention to clarify some of my arguments:

Branding:

Matterport's name is gaining traction in the industry, but the end users have nothing to do with the brand. If I want to buy a house or if I want to see how the Hilton Buenos Aires is, I don´t need/want to see a Matterport label and certainly don´t care about who is powering whathever it needs to be powered to let me watch the presidential suite.

Do you really care which camera uses Mario Testino? Or you appreciate Testino's art and look at the portraits he makes? And I never saw a single photo from Mario with a logo saying "powered by Nikon" or "powered by Canon". You see! I have no idea which camera this guy uses, because it is his work what I am interested in.

If Nikon wants to sell more cameras because of the good work of Testino, Nikon would have to pay for it (I will elaborate on this in my final suggestions).

This is what I am talking about when I mention "excessive branding".

In my opinion, a little single logo of Matterport placed in the most remote and insignificant corner of MY models, is "excessive". If I want/need to say that I work with Matterport technology, then let me opt for that alternative and let me to put the logo in my work. But in any case it would be my decision.

I have mentioned before that I also work as a consultant. Well, in my deliverables the only brand that I put is my name. My charts don´t say "powered by Excel" and my presentations don´t have a Powerpoint logo on them.

It is my show and I am the only one to be credited. Not the manufacturer of my laptop, the company that made the software etc, etc. I paid for these tools, and not they are for my use and profit.

Perhaps the problem is in Matterport marketing strategy. They say that they sell you a camera, when in fact what they sell is a subscription system where you have to pay for some hardware that you won´t be able to use in any other system or platform in the world. I know, put in that way doesn´t sound very attractive right?

When I purchase a camera, I assume that from then on everything I decide to do with it is mine. No TOS to tie me and nothing more than my will to do whathever I want with my content.

You say "If you could have all of the components that make up Showcase, what would you do with them?", well, I don´t have any idea today, but I am not sure about it tomorrow. And in any case,it is my work, these are my images.

Matterport only sold me a camera and they charged me for processing the data...from then on I would preffer not being in a relationship with them. If they want a relationship with me, they would have to offer such a great deal that I would be willing to be with them, and not get me tied to a subscription scheme.

And I don´t see the idea of sending my models to another MSP as a good one. My models are not lost puppies that need a pet foster home. It is a paliative, but not a solution.


Forced hosting and overpricing for it

Let´s be honest. They adopted this business model because the "monthly fee model" is the new scam in the Valley. Many years ago you could purchase your license of Photoshop and never pay an additional penny, and now you have to purchase a monthly license, and the same applies to a lot of solutions.
Companies need to be sure that they get monthly fees so they can justify their valuations to their investors.

In Matterport's case, if you do more than 3 models per month you are OK, but if you aren´t (for any reason), you start paying an absurd cost for hosting in Amazon! You know, I know, everybody knows, that it is not a fair pricing scheme for everybody.

My humble suggestion to Matterport? Implement two different pricing schemes:

a) Pay for monthly hosting a very low fee (we know how much Amazon hosting services cost!) and pay as you go for each model
b) Purchase a combo (hosting/models) as they have today

And regarding branding:

a) Eliminate all Matteport branding from the models
b) Offer a discount to those who want to let the Matterport logo on their models

Charging more for an unbranded model would be abusive, in my point of view, because I am arguing that these logos should have never been there in the first place.

As I said, plenty of things to say, and unfortunately not too much time to do it, so these are my two thoughts about some of the things that you said in your post.

I know that your position and mine are different regarding this matter, but we both share the same passion to serve our customers and make them happy by offering the best technology and the best terms to use it.

Sharing and commenting on others points of view is what makes this forum so interesting and adds so much value. Thank you for your comments and I really hope you get that Matty Award

Do I deserve an "anti-Matty" award for this post too?
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grmngrl private msg quote post Address this user
@Metroplex360 Blackberry did not fail over night either, but did drop in sales as soon as the iPhone was released. They failed to see the needs of the customers and they maneuvered them self to be in a very narrow niche appealing only to a small number of clients (mostly government and business).

MP didn't even see the bigger picture of the MP cameras field of use until one or 2 years after the initial MP camera release. Now we can look at different industries as well. What happened to Nokia, Sony (mobile phones) and Polaroid to name a few.

All of them failed because they did not change their product to be open for developers and with that filling the need of a wide array of customers. Oh and what do you think would happen to the R&D cost for MP? It would drop if they would only stick to the development of their physical product. Right? And appealing to a wider array of clients would increase the sales, correct?

I know MP is going to fail you just wait and see when we have the next comparable or even better camera available. Which will be happening with no doubt. The development of new technology is exponential and will interrupt many now existing tech companies because of the inability to change their business model to meet the needs of current and prospective customers.
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To Matterport!

1. Open your platform to 3rd developers and you will decrease your R&D cost
2. Offer your MP service partners a low cost subscription or lower the price for the camera to the actual cost of production and materiel (or camera upgrade)
3. Offer a low hosting service subscription only for MP service providers clients to host their own models
4. Stop trying to charge more for services that you develop (your emphasis should be gaining more clients with better capabilities of your MP camera)

Thank you!

I need to add one more request:

MP it would be a good idea to change you current company credo "MP First" to "MP Service Providers First"
I can guarantee that will positively effect you bottom line in the long run.
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@Metroplex360 Thanks for the well thought out post. Helps reenforce what my perception is re MP.

Not that I don't ever have concerns, but all things considered, with the huge amount of growth and projects they are navigating, they are doing an amazing job and have a product that at this moment, is without rival. It is impossible with all of this going on to not have some growing pains. What encourages me is that Matterport has always been quite responsive to my individual issues and it seems, general MSP concerns.

Can't tell you how stoked I am regarding the surprise gift of rapid capture this week. First blush it seems a minor thing, but getting in and out... cutting a significant % of time off clearing a property/interrupting a business/homeowner/agent's schedule IS a big deal. Frankly, seeing the "camera" wiz around now... I wouldn't have thought it possible to capture that amount of data that quickly any time this soon. Bravo!
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Question: Will the quick scan feature put more stress on the camera motor used to rotate the camera and it could possibly break, as the first MP pro camera was not built to do quick scanning?

Just wondering...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
@Metroplex360, thank you for your long reply. I certainly will vote you for the Matty award in the category of "Long posts about Matterport on a non-Matterport owned channel"


I will win!

I will try to briefly respond to you below and have organized my thoughts.

Let me start by saying this --

Matterport is a movement, not a revolution.

As a movement -- Matterport began as dreamers with an ideology. In order to sustain the idea, provide fair access and ensure its longevity, the band of dreamers became a company with executives, accountants, investors and a board that make decisions.

As a revolution -- Matterport would aggressively release features and put the power in the people's hands. We'd all be beta testers. We'd get things regardless of how stable or well conceived they were. Everything would be open sourced and other companies would quickly start their own solutions offering competitive pricing. Matterport would likely enjoy a surge of revenue and then be eclipsed by other manufacturers and products and we'd be left with an ideal, too many choices and half baked ideas.

Where's the Revolution?

Google Street View. Once, an exclusive club where photographers were onboarded based on need in areas (I was denied for several years despite my best efforts) -- it's now open. Anyone can post to GSV with almost any device capable of producing a pano. Anyone can build a moderator system if they possess the talent.

And what does the revolution look like? It's a second class citizen to what it used to be. We get our answers from the developers of the moderation tools. Great people, but even they are in the dark on the answers that we need or want and must accept that they are providing us the best tools that they can with what they have been given. There is no accountability.

--

So back to the movement.

Trust / Longevity

Matterport is a company with many partners, many investors, and extremely qualified people ensuring that the company functions and operates as a sustainable business. Many unpopular decisions are made in the interest of sustainability.

Self Hosting & Branding

You cannot self host or remove branding from GeoCV, iGuide, Cupix or RealVision.

Matterport offers an offline copy via Showcase of iOS -- and I believe an Android version is in the works based on the job postings that Dan has shared. Android + Bluestacks = any PC can display an offline copy.

Assets

Anything provided from my.matterport.com can be used as you please. Just don't redistribute a schematic floorplan publically without their logo on. Kind of silly, but for a $15 floorplan, I think it's fine.

Concerning being able to get all of the bits of our tours -- that would be the 4k cube faces and an OBJ file that is in protobuffers format, then several database query results via the REST API that return the info that we input into Matterport Cloud and the work we do in Workshop.

I'd like to see the 4K Cube Faces available to download as equiretangular panos (panospheres). Matterpak+?

Extended Assets.

OBJ Files aren't actually a part of the tour, but I'm with you guys on seeing the OBJ file as a core feature that is part of the perceived value of the camera purchase. I have my thoughts on this as point clouds, reflective colorplans and all the other goodies in the MatterPak aren't core features. I'd love to see the panos available to purchase or in MatterPak+. Most companies will charge $1 to stitch a panorama.

And then again, what other company is offering any of this? I know that iGuide has a really cool package of things that they generate with each tour. There's quite a high price on processing too. Its up there with Matterport's $19 fee + $49 MatterPak fee + $15 floorplan fee. At least we have an ala carte option with Matterport.

Branding:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
If I want to buy a house or if I want to see how the Hilton Buenos Aires is, I don´t need/want to see a Matterport label and certainly don´t care about who is powering whathever it needs to be powered to let me watch the presidential suite.


When I searched for the Hilton Buenos Aires on Google, I see ads from TripAdvisor.com, Hotels.com and Booking.com. When I click on their website, I see TripAdvisor Travel Ratings. When I click on their videos, I see a YouTube logo. When I click the 'Share' link, it opens a new tab to 'addthis.com' and has a laundry list of ridiculous websites to share the page link to. I'm seeing a trend on 3rd party solution integration here.

When looking to buy a house, I'll check out Realtor.com. I see a Google Maps integration with a Google logo that is sponsored by State Farm. I clicked on 'Virtual Tour' on a listing and a 'Showcase Photographers' branded photo tour pops up. (s'up guys!)

There's branding everywhere. I think Matterport is a classy brand.

There was a minor point about not seeing 'powered by Nikon' on photos or what not -- and I think that's because it doesn't apply to photos. Just like there's no 'Font designed by Lucas Calamazoo' next to words on the website or attribution by a word because it originated in Greek language. Those things are just too ubiquitous.

We get brands on platforms.

As to the point about a spreadsheet - If you deliver a spreadsheet to someone, the viewer that they are using likely says 'Excel'. There are alternatives, but pretty much, if you asked someone who invented the spreadsheet, I imagine they'd say 'Microsoft Office'. (and that's not even a person).

--

They are selling subscriptions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
Perhaps the problem is in Matterport marketing strategy. They say that they sell you a camera, when in fact what they sell is a subscription system where you have to pay for some hardware that you won´t be able to use in any other system or platform in the world. I know, put in that way doesn´t sound very attractive right?


But you can use the Matterport camera on other platforms.

You can [now] post the tour to GSV. You can extract 360 Snapshots and post to Facebook. You can use Snapshots anywhere. You can export the OBJ to Archilogic or Sketchfab.

You just need to upload via Matterport Cloud because that's where the content is processed. Same with iGuide... same with GeoCV... same with RealVision ... same with Cupix...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
You say "If you could have all of the components that make up Showcase, what would you do with them?", well, I don´t have any idea today, but I am not sure about it tomorrow. And in any case,it is my work, these are my images.


You can download the RAW data gathered from the tool from the iPad. You can download derivative copies as snapshots / 360 snapshots. All of the data is a derivative at some point because the camera itself doesn't actually create the content that we want. It captures RAW data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
Matterport only sold me a camera and they charged me for processing the data...from then on I would preffer not being in a relationship with them. If they want a relationship with me, they would have to offer such a great deal that I would be willing to be with them, and not get me tied to a subscription scheme.


It's not a camera. iGuide does the same thing. Most platforms charge SAAS. This is not a unique argument towards Matterport. I think the question is - are you getting value from it? I pay Matterport ~$300 a month, and it's overhead that is taken into consideration with my pricing. It's not a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
And I don´t see the idea of sending my models to another MSP as a good one. My models are not lost puppies that need a pet foster home. It is a paliative, but not a solution.


So pay the hosting fees My point was that if you want to terminate paying Matterport hosting fees, you can find someone else to host with -- yes, they will be hosting with Matterport -- but they will charge you a lower fee. It's an option.

SAAS is a scam?

I'm getting a lot of mileage from SAAS from Adobe, Apple, Google, GoThru, Netflix and other vendors. It's allowed the industry to curb piracy, stablize revenue, and innovate. I'm kind of a fan of it. I love getting the latest version of Photoshop on release day as part of the $10/mo Photographer plan. That's AWESOME.

SAAS funds creativity and keeps platforms growing. I'm for it!

--------------------------

Sorry to exhaust.

As to the suggestions --

$50/mo is not much. Does it hurt if we do not scan for a month? Yeah, kinda does. I've requested that we get free roll-over of our '3 free models' at that pricepoint so that we don't lose that $$$. Would that be a good option?

Eliminate all branding? What would you pay for non-branded? Vimeo offers this at a certain tier. If there's a value prop for Matterport, I'm sure it's been or will be on the table at some point.

Discounts for Matterport logos on their models? LOL. I think we're already getting the discount

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
Thank you for your comments and I really hope you get that Matty Award Do I deserve an "anti-Matty" award for this post too?


No, you don't get a fictional Matty-award in a non-existant category for this. Only I get that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grmngrl
Question: Will the quick scan feature put more stress on the camera motor used to rotate the camera and it could possibly break, as the first MP pro camera was not built to do quick scanning?

Just wondering...


I don't think so. I believe that the main stress is on the camera itself. Something to do thermal instability. I imagine that the rotator is capable of going even FASTER -- but the ability to process the data, align the mesh and transfer it is another limiting factor.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPOceanic
Can't tell you how stoked I am regarding the surprise gift of rapid capture this week. First blush it seems a minor thing, but getting in and out... cutting a significant % of time off clearing a property/interrupting a business/homeowner/agent's schedule IS a big deal. Frankly, seeing the "camera" wiz around now... I wouldn't have thought it possible to capture that amount of data that quickly any time this soon. Bravo!


It's like you got a new camera! This changes everything!
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@Metroplex360 Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroplex360
Trust / Longevity

Matterport is a company with many partners, many investors, and extremely qualified people ensuring that the company functions and operates as a sustainable business. Many unpopular decisions are made in the interest of sustainability.


Partners and investors in general do not have any expertise in how to run a business, they just wait for a check to come in. Can you please collaborate on "qualified people" a little more. How qualified, to what capacity and in what field? Do we talk about Engineers or Business Management? A great engineer is not necessarily a person qualified to run a business.

As we can tell from previous bad business practices regarding how MP is gaining clients and the non existent customer support for example.

I know ,I know Google doesn't provide any customer service, no they do not but their service doesn't cost me a dime / month either. However anybody else that use as my service provider does provide good customer service.
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@Metroplex360, we could exchange posts for days and we would never accomplish anything. We have some basic disagreements here.

You are a believer with a frequent and fluid relationship with Matterport while I am just a user.

For me, Matterport is a virtual tour with a dollhouse. Which means that I am not the right valued customer for them. And that explains my posts.

The fundamental question here is: how many of the thousands of Matterport camera owners think that it is just a virtual tour with a dollhouse and how many think that there is a lot more. And I mean A LOT enough to justify a long term relationship with the brand.

If we were to run a Net Promoter Score on Matterport, what figure do you think they would get? More promoters than detractors?

The answer to this question will tell you for how long the movement will keep going on.

You know that there is no such thing as perpetual movement (first law of thermodynamics). The question here is for how long Matterport will keep receiving the fuel needed to feed what you call "the movement".

And let me finish with this: it is not about technology. It never was about technology. In business, everything goes around the value/price ratio. While price is something you can measure very easy, value is subjective. And that's why we are posting what we are posting, and I say what I say while you feel and say something completely different.

We cannot argue about value perception. It makes no sense and leads nowhere.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grmngrl
Can you please collaborate on "qualified people" a little more. How qualified, to what capacity and in what field? Do we talk about Engineers or Business Management? A great engineer is not necessarily a person qualified to run a business.


https://matterport.com/about/

Couple people not on there -

Kirk Stromberg - Product Management | Product Marketing
Graduated: Stanford University Graduate School of Business
Motorola Mobility (5 yrs), Nokia Senior Product Manager (~2 yrs), Adobe Senior Manager / Corporate Strategy (~5yrs), Palm/PalmSource, Orbital (Kennedy Space Center)

Oren Tversky - VP Business Development
Graduated: UC Berkley
Unity Technologies (4 yrs), Symbian (7 yrs) - Samsung's OS platform before they adopted Android.

--

An article about their new CFO -- JD Fay, CFO. Harvard Business School grad.





--

Want to know my achievements?

Chris Hickman
Austin Community College, 1 yr (studied Spanish and Chemistry)
Last 'real job': Bennigan's. (2001-2002)

I started programming at age 6 on my Commodore 64. I dreamed of making development platforms for building games, which transitioned into curiosity in data management/business application development in high school. I was the business manager for my High School newspaper and handled ad sales. I took these two passions and turned to web development in 1998. I dropped out of college to pursue building a CMS system and work with a life coach at starting a business and learning how to interact with clients. Website clients included several multi-family apartment management companies in Texas, merch sites for several bands (Howie Day, Virginia Coalition, and one other that I cannot even remember) which led to commuting to Washington DC monthly to work with several conservative groups and a contract in-house position at god.tv. I eventually dropped my CMS when Wordpress became a viable platform for general web development.

I started Metroplex360 in 2006 when I became a father as a separate venture to market photography and panoramas and refocus on something a bit more scalable as these were of interest to several clients and I felt that they were worth marketing separately.

I don't have a proper degree, but in being a web developer and working with so many different clients, it's helped me learn about how businesses function - and helped me see plently of disfunctional businesses.

I'm fascinated by how businesses operate and love to ask a lot of questions. Even this journey with Matterport has been an educational experience. I have asked a LOT of questions.

I see the degrees and the years of education that comprises the Matterport Team -- the accomplishments -- and how these people have all pursued their dreams and converged together at this unique company and am absolutely humbled to have a voice in the community and in field testing and providing feedback to what they are building.

These are some smart people that I'm sure keep each other in check. I am not even qualified to work at Matterport.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
@Metroplex360, we could exchange posts for days and we would never accomplish anything.

We have some basic disagreements here. You are a believer with a frequent and fluid relationship with Matterport while I am just a user. For me, Matterport is a virtual tour with a dollhouse. Which means that I am not the right valued customer for them. And that explains my posts.


I think that's an accurate description of Matterport's product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
The fundamental question here is: how many of the thousands of Matterport camera owners think that it is just a virtual tour with a dollhouse and how many think that there is a lot more. And I mean A LOT enough to justify a long term relationship with the brand.


I think most people just get it to make virtual tours with a dollhouse and VR mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
If we were to run a Net Promoter Score on Matterport, what figure do you think they would get? More promoters than detractors?


I think that the # of cameras owned, the # of tours uploaded and the '50 fastest growing silicon valley private companies' metrics tie in. I don't know what measurements are used - but when apartments.com, realtor.com and other large companies are adopting the technology... I would say that perception of Matterport's value is high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
You know that there is no such thing as perpetual movement (first law of thermodynamics). The question here is for how long Matterport will keep receiving the fuel needed to feed what you call "the movement".


Fair question to ask of any company - and it answers itself. As long as people want to use their product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
And let me finish with this: it is not about technology. It never was about technology. In business, everything goes around the value/price ratio. While price is something you can measure very easy, value is subjective.


Value/Price - Determined by individual success of the MSP. Matterport are always looking at the value proposition of everything they do from which features are added, how they are added, and what price points to associate with the product.

It is not of value to Matterport to hire on additional staff and expand their operations without monetizing their platform further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfantin
And that's why we are posting what we are posting, and I say what I say while you feel and say something completely different. We cannot argue about value perception. It makes no sense and leads nowhere.


There were several points raised that I responded to that extended beyond feeling and value perception.

At the end of the day, yes, Matterport's Value Prop might not work for everyone. I am very happy when it -does- work for others as they are on the journey with me -- and hopefully I can learn something.

I've learned a LOT from the people here @WGA. Esp @DanSmigrod.
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