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3D ShowcaseMatterport KerfufflepricingScanning

Matterport now pricing their own 3Dscan cost5032

Gerhard private msg quote post Address this user
@alx3D the lady from Hopscotch has posted on here giving us her side of the story. But I always say a story has three sides to it. His side, her side, and the truth.
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hometakes private msg quote post Address this user
Its here: https://forum.we-get-around.com/topic/5040/page/1/why-i-am-participating-in-the-pilot/#9
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alx3D private msg quote post Address this user
If matterport wants to capture some of that income i get it but set the price high as [redacted]... it is good for everyone!

They make a lot of money on dishing out scans because they have biggest marketing reach. We all look like great value because we are way cheaper than MP. Price is relative so they should set it high.

They make good money on both ends. Setting the price low makes tiny amounts for MP and starves out all the MSPs.


Investors want to make money? Set the price standard high!.25/ft+
Post 78 IP   flag post
Gerhard private msg quote post Address this user
If they don't change very soon, keep an eye on eBay going to have a lot of 2nd hand Matteroprt cameras going to market. I think my Pelican case is worth more than my camera now.

Yes, charge us for the add on services make your returns there. Makes business sense. Stop trying to control this market. You will fail.

And then again them owning the content is leaving a bad taste in my mouth each day. It is forcing us to look at new solutions I am very sad to say that. But its technology so you adapt or you become inferior. I don't even want to think of the legal implications we can face with our clients. And the number of business I have lost just because of this short sightedness and greed.

Maybe tell the clients they are only "renting " the content that we created of their establishment from a product we paid for and paying a hosting fee each month that we don't even own. I want to see them pitch this to Shark Tank and see what they will say about this fantastic business model. I will pay money to watch that show.
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Gerhard private msg quote post Address this user
clickable text

Love the reference to a Cartell from Chriss Wood hits the hammer on the head.
Post 80 IP   flag post


PeterMcCready private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by alx3D
Investors want to make money? Set the price standard high!


Indeed, a low price standard can only result in reduced camera sales, any invested VCs following this must be deeply troubled by their This Is Fine approach
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hometakes private msg quote post Address this user
@Matterport Are you listening?:

There is nothing positive what so ever about you guys setting the price. And I ask you, what is the deal with 50/50 split if you claim you are not in the MSP business. Splitting the profits by definition means that you are in the MSP business. I don't see how you can say that you are not. Also, where is the fairness in your choosing a city and a provider for your Beta testing? Regardless of the price and even though the whole idea of this beta test was bad, you should have selected someone from a lottery to make it fair. Sounds like a bit of favoritism to me when you chose and area and MSP provider.

Heres an idea thats fair and simple that takes no man power once its set up:

Every Matterport Service Provider should have their pricing page link in your database. Advertise nationwide on Facebook targeted at Real Estate Agents. Contained in the ad would be a link to Matterport's website where someone can search for MSP's by zip code. They enter the zip code and the MSPs website links that service that area appear (direct to their pricing page, yes we can give you that link). Very simple and will be very effective. You don't need a marketing degree to figure that this is the easiest way to promote Matterport's MSP's and get us more tours which in turn gets you more hosted models.
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nat_vanveen private msg quote post Address this user
Brilliant camera, I just love Matterport technology. It's a shame that the company hasn't got a %$#@!@ clue about sales and marketing and their responses noted above have just been a load of BS, my Dog could do better blindfolded in a storm!!
Post 83 IP   flag post
SailAway private msg quote post Address this user
And we just picked up huge client that does large commercial spaces.

My fear is that I don't have the product in my hand! The type of profits we are speaking of are in 10s of thousands of $. what happens when Matterport shuts its doors? (I've seen it before with others)

One single client such as this would cause us to go bankrupt if such scenario accrued.

How can we get the content and host it on our own servers? I'm not happy with the direction Matterport is taking this. I think I need to look into other solutions which Dan had showed me.
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DougTse private msg quote post Address this user
It's a shame that the Matterport support forum wouldn't allow me to broadcast my feedback on the MSP Pilot 3D Scan thread. So I'll gladly share here on the forum.

http://https://support.matterport.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115007098567-Understanding-the-Matterport-MSP-3D-Scan-Pilot
Avatar Doug Tse
Yesterday at 23:41 (Edited 6 hours ago)
Kelly,

Allow me to help you point out that your marketing tactic with unique link and only accessible via your advertisements that are highly targeted to SF/Bay Area market, which is where the two MSPs participating in the test are based has specifically affected my market in the SF/Bay Area. My clients approached me with your company advertisements and have denounced contract agreements assuming my company service work is overpriced as my company wears your MSP badging. I'll be rather frank ,in addition, out of all of your referral registry, there were only two leads during the whole year which have done nothing for my business.

Your company has shown me it's in the merit for competition today and I'm okay with that. Therefore, I'll be returning the (2) ordered Matterport Pro2 cameras units along with referring my clients to other product services because the Matterport value is too cheap for my clients that are looking for worth. Thank you for showing me that your company's vision is made for short-term growth that devalues professional work.
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PeterMcCready private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_vanveen
Brilliant camera, I just love Matterport technology. It's a shame that the company hasn't got a %$#@!@ clue about sales and marketing and their responses noted above have just been a load of BS, my Dog could do better blindfolded in a storm!!


Absolutely, it's the best thing since sliced bread!

Everybody loves it (I've colleagues quite literally swearing like troopers re the quality of the experience!), but seriously let's have some common sense Matterport, stick to selling cameras and providing the seamless service that I've experienced (focus on y-axis trimming and standalone hosting options to keep us all on the right side of the legal profession!) and leave the pricing to the people who believed in you (I still have faith...) sufficiently to build a business around what you do well.
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Mikesobay private msg quote post Address this user
My post was altered, so I removed it.
Post 87 IP   flag post
justinv private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesobay
These rates, which Matterport will be taking a cut from, are not sustainable, based on the time required to create the scans, set up the model and tours, create a web page, create content for Mattertags and whatever else must be accomplished.

As an MP provider and photographer, you would put me in the uncomfortable position of explaining why my photos are superior to the jpg photos culled from your scans which I am providing


They want mattertags as well?

You can show them examples of your photography and the snap[redacted] and ask them to make the decision.
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VTLV private msg quote post Address this user
@mori - Thank you for sharing before the link went bust


The key phrase here is "Profits for you as you leverage additional camera operators". we see that one of the participants state "We serve clients in California, as well as Berlin, Germany and beyond"

Those of us who shoot other photography get sickened when photography companies approach us to shoot for under $100. This one is $35

Notice this ad requires full frame sensor camera($2k retail), lenses, 1099 contract. The pay doesn't justify replacing the equipment in the future to keep going.

Take this model and apply it to the outsource guys already approaching us. The $100-150 scans they currently offer will quickly dwindle to under $50 as they compete with this model from Matterport.

Surely Matterport makes out with us fronting their server bill. The outsource companies typically host in their home town to cover the hosting fee and advertise regionally to fill the additional space.

We're not competing just like the outsource dudes who say a guy in my market was asking about your town. C'mon, we saw this advertised outside the bay area. Companies like Pepsi and Coke use small cities and counties for test markets. Dropping a price bomb on technology near silicone valley for the most expensive place to live and work on this planet to "test"? I'm not buying it.



Matterport fronts for the marketing and has someone front the lead to their preferred provider already working in the office. Labor and hosting already being paid for at the office. I'm thinking the Service provider now outsources the work for $10-15/hr leaving about $50 to Matterport and $50 to the service provider.




This company works too much like congress over promising for years with slow results. Then drilling screws into us slowly. Don't be surprised if we see more of this.

@frstbubble - you called it! "If I wanted to be part of a "franchise" I would have bought a "franchise"!"

We didn't sign on to be a franchise! We got out from working under crappy bosses. But the clouds keep trying to come in and smolder our fire in the form of outsourcing. I thought I adapted well to change. The things revolving around this company along with investors wanting their cash back at year 5 isn't looking too bright for the future.
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JanHamorsky private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Guys,

the leading and most important Slovak online real estate marketplace TopReality (something like Zillow in the US) has bought Matterport technology and offers its clients/advertisers a service at the prices you can see on the screenshot below. For example: Price 179 € /L-Tour is for scan of 4-5 room apartment. Their price structure depends on number of rooms, not on the size/square meters of the property. For 199 € they offer 3D tour of commercial spaces, houses, etc... They even discount these rates for brokers and realtors - this price list is valid for homeowners... clickable text

Greetings from Slovakia - from the heart of Europe
Post 90 IP   flag post
BillRobinson private msg quote post Address this user
As one of the two MSP’s participating in the Bay Area test program I’d like to explain my participation in the program. Considering I’ve been an MSP since January of 2013, I do have a history with Matterport.

While I have a good, and in some cases a close working relationship with some people at Matterport, I’m certainly not one of their buds, get to hang out, or get to look forward to any stock options if they’re sold or go public. In the 4.5 years since I first started by testing the original beta camera, I’ve seen significant improvements to the hardware, software and efforts at creating more opportunity for MP and MSP’s. I’ve also seen missteps and delays along the way.

Due to my background, one of the main attractions to me when I first started scanning was the promise of an ‘interior design suite’. I’m still waiting for it. My impression has always been Matterport was a start-up that was behind on the marketing and MSP development side of the business. Matterport should have had a format for a MSP program with marketing materials, videos, forms, templates, etc. right from the start. Those have recently been developed, and it’s mostly due to requests and input from MSP’s like myself, and many others from around the world.

In my dealings and discussions with Matterport, I find the employees I work with have the best of intent to help both Matterport and MSP’s be successful. I also find it’s difficult for them to fully understand the MSP business side and anticipate all variable outcomes of decisions and policies. I do know that in relation to the test, they did reach out and talk with a number of MSPs for input.

My prior career was operating a large group of La-Z-Boy stores and for 15 of those years operated a ‘pilot’ store. New models, new processes, concept store lay-outs, new POS systems, new delivery systems, etc. were all tested at my store and proved viable, non-viable or ‘changes need to be made’ prior to any implementation. It’s more work being a pilot store but it’s also rewarding because of the opportunity to offer valuable input.

You’ve all seen the pricing of the Matterport pilot program in the Bay Area. It’s low. Very low. Lower than my prices. And my prices are pretty sharp, but not out of whack with my competition. I have a competitor that will do a 3,000 SqFt home for $150. A few weeks ago I lowered my prices by $20 per scan due to another competitor coming into the market and undercutting. I’ve also seen an MSP advertise a starting price for just $99 (fortunately not my market). A lot of MSP’s do a poor job with minimal scan points, not turn off unwanted points, lazy/poor scan paths, etc. I include exterior step-outs, closet peeks, luxury shower snaps, full room scans, well laid out paths and I turn off points. Unfortunately, agents not familiar with Matterport don’t understand the difference and simply look at price.

Currently all I do is Matterport photography. I made the decision to do only MP and see if I can create a business that doesn’t rely on single property websites, still photography, printing brochures, etc. I’ve carved out a small business and it’s growing. But I’m also always looking to see what changes I may need to make or services to add to enhance my MP business. And we all know it all takes time – which is the bane of a small business person.

This is my first experience with a true start-up that had a product and then had to figure out how to make money with it. It’s been a bumpy road and it’s gone much slower than I had anticipated. Plus, the catch for me is trying to do the scans, do Workshop, invoice, post to social media, collect money, do marketing, and work on growing the business.

My main interest in the Bay Area test is to see just how more effective I might be if some of those functions were more automated, done for me, etc. My secondary interest is in how price plays into the equation of getting more agents using Matterport. Based on my scouring homes for sale and keeping a tally, I’m sure that Matterport is used in less than, or barely at 1%, of the overall real estate market (but a much higher percentage in the luxury category). I think figuring out how to get the medium/medium-high listings using MP is paramount to our success.

What price point that requires is also important. If it is too low then neither Matterport nor MSP’s will win. If I can’t make money at it long-term then I’m not going to do it. And if MSP’s won't do it, I really don’t see Matterport developing a division of camera operators. Maybe I’m wrong about intent, but every conversation I’ve had with MP employees regarding the test has centered around how to make it work for MSP's.

We are in an evolving technology and like other new technologies as it matures price tends to drop. Competitive products also force market changes. A $5,000 investment and a monthly subscription fee are not prohibitive barriers to more people jumping in. My hope for the test is it helps Matterport figure out how to make it work to help all MSP’s grow their business profitably.

If the test provided enough evidence for the development of affordable ‘back-office/marketing’ functions that would allow me to spend more time scanning and developing business, and let each MSP float their price, that would be fine with me. I know my superior service and quality scans will separate me to grow my niche. I also know that doing the test scans I’m not making real money on them. But taking a hit for a short term with the possibility of developing long-term viability is worth it to me. And if it develops an opportunity for the community then it’s a success.

So, I read where a couple of you want to spam Hopscotch and me to hurt our businesses. That is pretty sad. At the same time, there have been many excellent comments on how it could be rolled out and/or presented differently that could diminish the impact on current MSP business. I also share the concerns when seeing the test on the internet and how it can impact my business.

But I’d much rather be at the table discussing MSP concerns than having MP go it alone.
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alx3D private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks Bill for sharing your thoughts on this.
Post 92 IP   flag post
Chadcloses private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for sharing that Bill, I don't believe any MSP's had issue with those selected to participate in the program, that is of course your choice. I know it was the way it was presented was at issue, and I think the point has been made abundantly clear. I hope our outrage didn't offend you or cost you any money or jobs.

Thanks,
Chad
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
Anyone feel that $0.10/sqft is the gold standard for pricing based upon markets maturing and competition increasing?
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@BillRobinson

Thank you SO much for your thoughtful backstory. I - we - appreciate your insight ( as well as @Hopscotch )

About the San Francisco trial, please help me understand what success might have looked like? What would have been the best possible result?

Even if Matterport could send you all the business you could want at the prices it publishes - and whatever the revenue share - I can not imagine how that income would have be sufficient for you.

Best,

Dan
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hometakes private msg quote post Address this user
@billrobinson

How can you make money on those numbers especially when they want 50%?
Post 96 IP   flag post
BillRobinson private msg quote post Address this user
Hi @DanSmigrod To your's and Hometake's comments about the money - I can do this for a short test period, but not long-term. As for success, I don't try to predict the outcome, but rather prefer examining the results and see what the data says.

Bill
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GeorgeK private msg quote post Address this user
If we were to look at the legality of this, and the California code this could easily be considered an unfair business practice and price fixing. I would not do this just because when the law suit comes anyone that participates could become a member of the lawsuit. The MSP who does this is in my opinion is acting in concert with a Manufacture who is working, through "MASS" advertising to control price and direct to specific providers giving some of their clients and advantage over others who are were not offered the ability to participate.

Think if NIKON did this and through their actions, controlled the price of pictures directing business to just people who used Nikon cameras.

Matterport made a GIANT mistake when this all started calling it a CAMERA. The scanner is not a Camera and the image is under the control of Matterport. This makes it a system. No one but matterport has the right to the reader. This is not a Jpeg!

Do not misunderstand me. I am not giving up on Matterport but I would bet you dollars to donuts that someone has already taken this to an Attorney if not the State Attorney General and its buzzing.

I bet this whole thing is "dead" in a matter of a few weeks.
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hometakes private msg quote post Address this user
I don't see the point of the test if Bill was only going to do it for a short time. I mean, why wouldn't it do well with Matterport advertising those prices. So what would the point of the test mean?
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeK
I bet this whole thing is "dead" in a matter of a few weeks.


From what it looks like, the link is dead and the program is in hiatus already.

As a San Diego resident, knowing that the program is going on in San Francisco must worry you quite a bit. (and yes, I know how far SF is from SD - I grew up in San Diego and we considered Northern California a state it its own right).

I do wonder what all of the legalities are. I thought that there were legal problems with Matterport and copyright over images a while back, but it turns out that the TOS trumps everything. That's a whole different argument of which I have some opinions on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hometakes
I don't see the point of the test if Bill was only going to do it for a short time. I mean, why wouldn't it do well with Matterport advertising those prices. So what would the point of the test mean?


Representatives from Matterport has explained that this program was a test pilot that was supposed to not be public. Ads were targetted geographically and the landing page was only visible via the ads. Unfortunately for them, @DougTse is a San Francisco MSP who seems to have not been invited, thus he went to the WGA forum to post his unpleasant findings.

While the implications of this test pilot are huge for all of us - at the moment, we are really rallying around Doug and any other SF MSP that might be affected by the direct competition.

The only reason that any of our clients in our own markets would know about these prices would be because we posted them on WGA.
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GeorgeK private msg quote post Address this user
@Metroplex360 I was never worried, and the reason I say this is I am a broker who purchased the system for my own listings, not to do scans for others. I have done a few for other people but that was never my goal.

I wanted the tool to gain a unique value proposition. I did not want to be subject to the whim and schedule of the photographer.

If you pick up a few "Million Dollar Listings" the value of the camera is less than say a referral fee. But the reality is I do not think about business like the typical Realtor. The typical Realtor knows the power of things like video but will not invest in the equipment or even a photographer. Just look at the pictures in the MLS to prove my point.
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DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @Metroplex360
...

The only reason that any of our clients in our own markets would know about these prices would be because we posted them on WGA.


1969 | U.S. bombs Cambodia for the first time


"U.S. B-52 bombers are diverted from their targets in South Vietnam to attack suspected communist base camps and supply areas in Cambodia for the first time in the war. President Nixon approved the mission–formally designated Operation Breakfast–at a meeting of the National Security Council on March 15. This mission and subsequent B-52 strikes inside Cambodia became known as the “Menu” bombings. A total of 3,630 flights over Cambodia dropped 110,000 tons of bombs during a 14-month period through April 1970. This bombing of Cambodia and all follow up “Menu” operations were kept secret from the American public and the U.S. Congress because Cambodia was ostensibly neutral. To keep the secret, an intricate reporting system was established at the Pentagon to prevent disclosure of the bombing. Although the New York Times broke the story of the secret bombing campaign in May 1969, there was little adverse public reaction."

Source: This Day in History

What do you think?

1. Was the secret bombing of Cambodia a good thing?
2. Whatever happened to Richard Nixon?

Dan
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroplex360
Representatives from Matterport has explained that this program was a test pilot that was supposed to not be public. Ads were targetted geographically and the landing page was only visible via the ads. Unfortunately for them, @DougTse is a San Francisco MSP who seems to have not been invited, thus he went to the WGA forum to post his unpleasant findings.


The pilot test was poorly conceived and badly executed.

It is incredible for me that they thought that all this was going to be kept in secret!.

Customers of current MSPs that were not part of the pilot asking these MSPs explanations about their pricing, people living in SF with MSPs friends elsewhere, etc, etc.

If thew wanted it to be secret they should have gone to Antarctica and offer MP scanning services to the penguins!
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GeorgeK private msg quote post Address this user
@jfantin Penguins... do not give them any ideas....lol..
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Viewing private msg quote post Address this user
I'm speculating but it seems the "secret" element of this test was only realised after the backlash. Honesty is admirable and had this test been for the benefit of the community I see no reason for secrecy in the first place. Success, honesty, fairness and decency can co-exist I promise. Give it a try [redacted] and team, it'll make you feel good.
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