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Need your suggestion on 360 camera4484

qpoisson private msg quote post Address this user
There are many affordable consumer 360 cameras in the market. However, most of them are optimized for taking selfie. I tried RICOH Theta S. The image quality of indoor view is really poor.

In your experience, so far in the market, which one is the best for capturing indoor scene?

thx.
Post 1 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@qpoisson

I recommend the Insta360 Nano (for iPhone, $200) or Insta360 Air ($120) (for Android). I have both and I also have a Ricoh Theta S. I have also tried (and sold on eBay) Panono, Giroptic and Bublcam.

I am very happy with the Insta360 Cameras.

At the Google Street View Summit 10-11 May 2017, there are 17 companies presenting. There are likely to be new Cameras - and updates - to existing cameras that announced.

Ricoh has already announced a 4K version of its existing Ricoh Theta S. As far as I know, they have not announced when and how much.

If you have not already downloaded the firmware for the Ricoh Theta S, try it and when possible, use HDR mode.

Here are some 360ºs I shot today (6 May 2017) with the Ricoh Theta S today in Tokyo. I should not have used HDR with people (I did ask them to stand still, which is hard to explain even when you speak the same language.)

By the way, I would still recommend the Ricoh Theta S - with HDR - for shooting homes. It's got the smallest nadir (bottom of 360º). I like the Insta360 Air best for video. The Insta360 Cameras are the easiest and best of the 360ºs in the under $500 category (and even to some extend under $100).

We Get Around curates a list of 50 1-click 360º Cameras.

Best,

Dan
Post 2 IP   flag post
bmnyphoto private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks Dan, I have been looking to purchase a 360 Camera, not big on phone being only controller for camera. I am thinking of the Ricoh Theta , but have heard they are coming out with new model.
Would you wait? why/why not???
THANKS BobM
Post 3 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@bmnyphoto

If you want a 360º camera to "play with" - to learn workflow - I would get the Insta360 for Android or iPhone. In the last 30 days, Insta360 released a firmware upgrade for the iPhone version that will save you $300 for a stabilizer, if you are planing to walk while shooting video. It leverages the iPhone Gyro.

I would wait for the 5th generation Ricoh Theta S that will be 4K. That said, I like that the Insta360 Cameras save to the smartphone so that playback and sharing can begin immediately. The Ricoh Theta S is too painful for shooting lots of video. That means a lot of processing of the video first and then transferring the video.

The Insta360 workflow experience is much, much better than Ricoh Theta S: particularly for sharing, including live streaming. If you have an Android phone, the Insta360 Air is a no-brainer at $120.

Good question to ask me after the Google Street View Summit.

Best,

Dan
Post 4 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user


@qpoisson @bmnyphoto

I shot this 360º video with the Insta360 Air (for Android) at a Tango dance party in Tokyo today (6 May 2017).

If you look in the nadir (bottom), you'll see how big the "footprint" is for the camera phone holder. Perhaps someone makes a tiny one. Here's the holder for the smartphone to the tripod.

Dan
Post 5 IP   flag post
Matt19 private msg quote post Address this user
Hey Dan,

So while one of your suggestions is to wait until after the summit since there will likely be some new products.

Is the reason you say insta360 because it's good starter and relatively cheap to start out with? Verses the Matterport or even another higher end system?

I'm still trying to decide on which camera I'm going to go with. I may end up buying a 1/2 share into a Matterport camera but I want to make sure I have a awesome camera for my real estate listings!
Post 6 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@Matt19

I was describing the category of under $500 or even $1,000.

I will write much more tomorrow on this topic. Got it get some sleep. It's after midnight in Tokyo and I've tango dancing for 3.5 hours without a stop. ZZzzzzzz.....

I would wait until after my coverage of the Google Street View Summit in Tokyo. Matterport is one of the companies presenting. Some fierce competitors of Matterport are speaking too.

Dan
Post 7 IP   flag post
Matt19 private msg quote post Address this user
@Dan,

Much thanks! I totally get it!

Get some sleep looking forward to your feedback when you can.

Thanks!

Matt
Post 8 IP   flag post
3rd Party
Service
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by qpoisson
There are many affordable consumer 360 cameras in the market. However, most of them are optimized for taking selfie. I tried RICOH Theta S. The image quality of indoor view is really poor.

In your experience, so far in the market, which one is the best for capturing indoor scene?

thx.


Yes, the Theta S is a selfie cam. There's little depth of field -- which you can see on @DanSmigrod's LOVELY gallery of Theta S panospheres that he shot in Tokyo. To Dan's credit -- I very much enjoyed what he shot and cannot imagine someone travelling to Japan making a better choice for a convenient way to capture the world in 360. It's not a professional tool in any way, but as Dan shows us -- it's a LOT of fun and is well worth the $400 if you want to quickly capture moments with ease and take 360 interviews. I have a Theta S that is sitting in its box collecting dust because I don't tend to have this need -- but love what Dan is doing with it.

Dan is an amazing Ricoh Theta S evangelist, which is why I bought one Should have clicked his Amazon link when I bought it

--

@DanSmigrod I love the InstaAir shot. The quality seems lower than the Theta, but the composition and color seems better overall. What phone are you attaching it to?
Post 9 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@Matt19

Unlike in my Big Greek Fat Wedding where the problem is always solved with Windex, the answer is not always "X" 360º camera.

In light of 50+ 360º 1-click cameras and/or platforms, I am often asked, "which one?"

Buying a 360º 1-click camera is more about you than the Camera.

So, share with me the following:

1. What problem are you solving by buying a 360º camera?
2. What opportunities do you see in buying a 360º camera?
3. Are you helping Real Estate Agents win more and bigger listings more often?
4. Are you a Real Estate Agent that needs a competitive advantage to differential your listing presentations?
5. If you are a Real Estate Agent, do you also consider your self a photographer?
6. If you are a Real Estate Agent, do you plan to offer your 360º services to other agents? (Or, other vertical?)
7. Are you a successful real estate photographer and clients are asking for Matterport?
8. Are you a successful real estate photographer seeking an up-sell visual storytelling solution?
9. What's your budget (and why)?
10. What's your timing?
11. Do you need to buy now and why?
12. Why can't you wait for "what's coming"?
13. Are you a gadget person and love the tech?
14. What is your passion?
15. Most of your Linkedin professional friends are in what space?
16. What is your subject matter expertise?
17. What $$$ volume of business do you need to do and why?
18. Are the 360ºs only for you and you only want to cover the cost of investment?
19. Do you know how much money gear and accessories will cost?
20. What's your motivation for buying a 360º Camera?

That should keep you busy while I meet a friend for lunch in Tokyo and go to a tango dance tonight.

I really do want to know the answers to the above before I answer your bigger picture 360º question.

Best,

Dan

P.S. @Metroplex360 let reply to your questions/comments later. Time for breakfast.
Post 10 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@bmnyphoto

InstaAir Nano firmware update now makes the camera 3K and adds stabilization using the smartphone gyro. The price just went up to $130 from $120.

Dan
Post 11 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@Metroplex360

The Insta360 Air pairs with an Android phone. I paired a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge (which I only use for VR demos, extra camera and now paired with the Insta360.

Because the dance studio was some-what dark, the quality is not as good versus shooting in great lighting.

BTW, I have five $under $500 360º cameras:

✓ Insta360 Air (pairs with Android smartphone) - I use for videos
✓ Insta360 Nano (pairs with iPhones) – I use for photos and videos (when I don't care about the size of the nadir
✓ Ricoh Theta S - shoot 360º photo spheres only - with HDR - for low-end commercial shoots and fun portability (low profile) for street photography. (Doesn't call too much attention to it.)
✓ 2 Ricoh Thetas - old generations (in a draw); 1 has a scratched lens

Dan
Post 12 IP   flag post
3rd Party
Service
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod The Samsung Galaxy S7 + Insta360 Air did a really nice job. The lighting and color are very well balanced and consistent throughout. F
Post 13 IP   flag post
Standard
Member
VTLV private msg quote post Address this user
Maybe I should look into which generation Ricoh I have. I picked it up last year to offset my cheap agents who wouldn't front money for the Matterport tour. (In my city, many Realtors are fighting with 1% listing agents on the radio who claim listing agents don't have to market the homes).

If my Matterport is too much, my offering becomes Ricoh, let me sell you a couple social media 360's with a MLS compliant web links before I loose a sale completely. The Ricoh shots come off too grainy once they are uploaded to the internet pissing off agents with the poor quality of 360 they are getting. Part of me thinks, you get what you pay for. The other part is, I need you to fall in love with my services and buy more or the better Matterport version next time.

I look at Dans shot at the wedding and it looks great. I do believe the front lens gets better clarity than the back side. But Dan is right about lighting affecting the shot with the need to use the HDR feature which has helped a little.

Still looking for the gem 360 offering for the cheap agents to stair step them into continuing to buy photo services in hopes of leading up to Matterport sales. Iguide and Imover don't make sense to cover the cost of doing business and charging agents a cheaper rate.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Matt19 private msg quote post Address this user
@ DanSmigrod,

1. What problem are you solving by buying a 360º camera?
1) It’s less of a problem and more of marketing advantage. I want to provide 3D tours of properties for my listing clients.

2. What opportunities do you see in buying a 360º camera?
2) I see other possible opportunities but that is not my intention at this moment. I want to focus on building my real estate business and differentiating myself from other listing agents!


3. Are you helping Real Estate Agents win more and bigger listings more often?

3) I am real estate broker (owner of a real estate company). Small times but looking to change that quickly.


4. Are you a Real Estate Agent that needs a competitive advantage to differential your listing presentations?

4) 100% yes! I want to produce a product that is better than most agents.


5. If you are a Real Estate Agent, do you also consider your self a photographer?
5) I would say presently I am not photographer but I am willing to learn since I enjoy it and see huge advantages. By learn I mean take classes trade services with other pro’s who can teach me things.

6. If you are a Real Estate Agent, do you plan to offer your 360º services to other agents? (Or, other vertical?)
6) No I don’t plan to offer to other agents as that just seems to be defeating my original purpose…growing my business. Could I end up shooting others property? Maybe down the road. I may do it for another broker who has helped me when I needed help. Sort of as a way to give back to them.

7. Are you a successful real estate photographer and clients are asking for Matterport?
7) No


8. Are you a successful real estate photographer seeking an up-sell visual storytelling solution?
8) No

9. What's your budget (and why)?
9) I don’t really have budget. I say that lightly since that is not 100% true. I am not looking to spend 20G’s at the moment but I am looking to produce a top of the line tour and very willing to spend 3600 for Matterport if that is where it is at (best quality for the money). I look at it as an investment. For me just one listing would pay for the camera which would certainly help grow business. However as Matterport catches on I would rather lead the pack then follow. Meaning if there is better camera for 3D/virtual tours then I’m open to it because at the end of the day if I am competing with matterport tours everywhere which is where I see this going then I need to be better than matterport ideally.

10. What's your timing?
10) Sooner the better but I currently have the opportunity to buy a ½ share of matterport camera. This is enticing since there will always be the next best thing and as I mentioned want to lead the pack but not be stupid with money either. I see it as an investment and I need a certain return on investment.

11. Do you need to buy now and why?
11) No since I have a ½ share option that I think makes a lot of sense.

12. Why can't you wait for "what's coming"?
12) I can wait if that is the smart thing. However I don’t want to be the realtor that sits on the side when they should have taken action.

13. Are you a gadget person and love the tech?
13) Yes very much so! This love grows a little every day!

14. What is your passion?
14) My passion is helping people! That is when I am most fulfilled. I know that seems vague but it’s 100% true! I love helping people and exceeding expectations. It doesn’t have to be a particular way but I am trying to focus on helping people buy and sell and manage their rental properties.

15. Most of your Linkedin professional friends are in what space?
15) LinkedIn is all across the board. I have not targeted one group. Mostly friend or acquaintances. I am not a big LinkedIn person. However am open to it if there is a reason.

16. What is your subject matter expertise?
16) I not sure I understand your question. Perhaps you are asking what I am good at or what I went to school for? If so I am a CPA who did public accounting and then did accounting for multiple commercial real estate companies thereafter. I’m good with technology and constantly learning.

17. What $$$ volume of business do you need to do and why?
17) I want to be a top producing real estate company in the Twin Cities and possibly beyond!

18. Are the 360ºs only for you and you only want to cover the cost of investment?
18) Primarily yes but I am open to other opportunities when found.

19. Do you know how much money gear and accessories will cost?
19) I have a decent idea in regard to the matterport of total cost.

20. What's your motivation for buying a 360º Camera?
20) Growing real estate business.

LOL on your that should keep me busy comment! It did thank you! I know what you are currently doing and I would encourage you to enjoy your trip before worrying about responding to me! My way of saying I’m trying to be respectful of your time and the opportunity of your travel at the moment.

Much Thanks,

Matt
Post 15 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@Matt19

I apologize. I will answer tomorrow. Full day touring Tokyo. Time for ZZzzzz....

Dan
Post 16 IP   flag post
Matt19 private msg quote post Address this user
Hey Dan,

I had some internet provider issues. Looking forward to your reply when things settle down for you!

Matt
Post 17 IP   flag post
Matt19 private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Dan,

Where you going to reply to my responses? I would very much appreciate your input.

Much thanks!

Matt
Post 18 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
@Matt19

Thank you for the reminder ...

Based on your notes before, I recommend that you move forward with the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera.

You might want to double-check the estimate cost (way beyond the cost of the camera). Use this We Get Around Calculator for how much will it cost to start a Matterport biz? (scroll down) You can get started with the $49/month Matterport hosting plan and likely do not need extra processing in year one.

While there are 60+ 1-click 360º cameras, based on your notes, Matterport is the best choice for you.

Please take the We Get Around Win More and Bigger Premium Listings Calculator for a spin and kindly share the results regarding what percent increase in your annual listings you estimated.

Best,

Dan

P.S. All the 2017 Google Street View Summit news, analysis, commentary and discussions in the We Get Around Network Forum.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Matt19 private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod

I have some additional follow up questions if or when you get a chance. I chatted with another forum member last night and they confirmed matterport as well!

1) That being said why Matterport over say Immoviewer or iGuide? I'm not trying to question your judgment but I am looking to understand your perspective. I very much think that this is a question that many others are seeking too. I have been reading every post on this site (new ones/everyday and even some older ones) and while this has been very helpful I still don't have the background like someone who has been in the trenches (tried multiple platforms/cameras and has been doing this for years). From reading the forum in someways it seems like Matterport is more for helping themselves than helping the camera owners. I say that based off of the complaints/gripes I read daily. While I get that they have to make money it seems like Matterport's business strategy could mutually align with their camera owners however that does not seem to be the case 100%.

My thoughts on:
immoviewer:

Pros
1) You can brand your tours vs Matterport who brands theirs
2) You get web stats with there software
3) You get lead capture with software
4) Faster load times than Matterport
5) NAR is looking to invest in them https://www.nar.realtor/news-releases/2017/05/second-century-ventures-adds-adwerx-and-immoviewer-to-2017-reach-accelerator-class
6) More flexibility than the mattertags (maybe)
7) Cost to try is very low (200-500 dollar camera)
8) Simplier edit process

Cons
1) Base subscription more (but no processing fee)
2) Image quality is less
3) Was told Matterport also has some sort of deal with Realtor.com



iGuide (Not super familiar with iGuide so don't have much insight)
Pros
1) Not for realtors (depending on your perspective)
2) Can take shots in the sunlight

Cons
1) 2D vs 3D?
2) Not for realtors (depending on your perspective)


Much thanks!

Matt
Post 20 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Matt,

Based on your answers, Matterport is the right solution for you: a tech savvy Real Estate Broker.

Immoviewer is also a great option for you. You might start with Immoviewer and decide if you want to also add Matterport. Later this year, Ricoh will launch its 4K Ricoh Theta S. When used in HDR model, it will be exceptions. If you can win more and bigger listings today, buy the Ricoh Theta S today and upgrade. It will (likely) be less than $400.

iGuide is for very busy, full-time professional real estate photographers.

"From reading the forum in someways it seems like Matterport is more for helping themselves than helping the camera owners. I say that based off of the complaints/gripes I read daily. While I get that they have to make money it seems like Matterport's business strategy could mutually align with their camera owners however that does not seem to be the case 100%."

The above only applies to Matterport Service Providers: not real estate agents and brokers.

If your branding is important on Matterport Spaces, you can do this today with WP3D Models Wordpress Plug-in. Plus, with WP3D Models, you can add a lead capture form (See example in the Single Property Website example below.)

Here's an example by We Get Around Atlanta:

www.703goldshorecourt.info (How Created)

Standard Members of the We Get Around Network get free use of WP3D Models.


Standard Membership is great for real estate agents and brokers; especially those that want to start a Matterport Service Provider business on the side. Tons of digital assets to help you trick-out a new website quickly. Plus, 9 marketing videos customized with your brokerage (or agents) contact info and logo.

You get stats with Matterport. (For a Pro, Matterport still needs to automate getting stats - like @Metroplex360 did with MatterStats - before Matterport asked him to stop offering this service.

Matterport already syndicates to Realtor.com, please see:

Realtor.com Listings add Matterport Spaces

Best,

Dan
Post 21 IP   flag post
mori private msg quote post Address this user
@Matt19 / Wait 2-3 month if possible for new releases or go with MP Pro2 if their solution fits and you have no additional needs.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Matt19 private msg quote post Address this user
@mori Thanks Mori!

When you say new releases are you talking Matterport or some other new option?
Post 23 IP   flag post
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