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3D ShowcasebugCaptureNavigationOutdoor

Exterior Scan Issues403

GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
I've just come across an issue with exterior scans after completing a 2 day shoot of a very large 13th century manor house. In previous versions of the capture app you could capture quite acceptable exterior scans as long as it was overcast with the normal distances between scans. The latest version of the capture app no longer seems to work for exteriors.

I was successful in capturing some exteriors but I needed to be no more then 60cm or 2 feet between scans. These aligned successfully so I thought I was OK. When I went to view the model in SC I could not access these exterior scans in one model and in the other you could not click on the circles to access the scans. Although in Workshop I could access these scans. Another strange thing is the very last exterior scan on one model goes to black. How could this scan even be accepted by the capture app.

It's now been 24 hours since I submitted a support ticket to MP and I have heard nothing. VT are my business and I would expect more from MP and if this is going to be the norm from now on on updates all of our businesses could be in jeopardy.

Has anyone out there experiences a similar problem with MP in the last week or so.
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falconshakka private msg quote post Address this user
did you start the exteior shoots from outside first or did you go from indoor to the exteior space
Post 2 IP   flag post
falconshakka private msg quote post Address this user
I had a problem like that where I started from outside and then entered the home ....that scan had issues ...

but when I started from the interior space and worked my wayto the exterior space the scans worked fine
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GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
I actually did both. I first did a wider exterior shot that failed then I moved close to the entrance, that took then I worked my way down the steps for several shots which had to be very close to each other, these all aligned so I thought I was good. When I got out a ways from the property I started to get alignment issues so I stop trying to do any additional captures.
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GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
That the process I did for the one I started by the entrance.
Post 5 IP   flag post
CKC private msg quote post Address this user
Sounds like there are lots of bugs on the software/processing end. Last MP update was they aimed to finish debugging the software by end June, which I think is quite unacceptable.
Post 6 IP   flag post
falconshakka private msg quote post Address this user
yea I think it best for me when I started from inside the home abd worked my way outside, that way the camera alignes all the images from the inside out

my first scan that failed I did exatly what you did, I started with a shot infront of the house and worjed dowb the stairs

the issues I had was that the scan infront of the house worked but when the sweep was facing away from the front of the house was comp[letly black or infinet scan distance so I would assume the canera failed to capyure anything
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GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
I had no idea that they were still debugging the app. Thanks for the update.
Post 8 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
I got a very good reply below this morning from Glenn at MP Support.

I was shooting in the early morning and as Glenn so rightly pointed out there were heavy clouds but these were of no help in blocking the IR. The last time I did an outdoor scan was at dusk and that is why it turned out so well. For us who are located so far north dusk doesn't occur in high summer till around 2100. So in the future I need to time the job where interiors are all shot throughout the day and then at dusk do my exteriors.

Also and interesting use of the Mesh to review issues we may have with a model. I've ask Glenn when he has time to do a short training video on the uses for the Mesh as many of use have never even looked at the Mesh in the Workshop.

Here is Glenn's email to me.

Hey Gary,

Hope you're doing great! Thanks for the links and update!

I spent a lot of time checking your models, here's what I put together:

As you may know, because your Matterport 3D Camera gauges depth by projecting and then reading an infrared pattern, outdoor scanning is not supported.

With that said (I do a lot of outdoor scanning) to give yourself the best chance with an outdoor component, I would only scan at dusk (sun's disc fully down and not observable from any vantage point, but still plenty of available light). Clouds are no assurance of safety as they bounce infrared. Morning you can be scanning and the sun can come out. Dusk the worst that can happen is night falls!

Sometimes you'll get away with not scanning at dusk, other times all manner of artifacts and trouble are possible. For this reason I can only suggest scanning at dusk.

With sun in mostly shade - outdoor scan destroyed:
bad (150 feet of scans all gathered at base of scan while viewing):
worse (no way to move between scans but to switch to dollhouse and click back in):

At full dusk (sun completely down from the sky but available light present) - usable:

A great way to view the effects of sun/glare, reflection, movement is to "drive" around models in "Mesh" view in Workshop at, switching back and forth from Mesh to Inside view where you spot trouble.

For the good of the underlying 3D mesh, best to avoid sunlight, reflective surfaces, movement as they can affect the quality and integrity of the 3D mesh.
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CKC private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks Gary. A video about Mesh would be fantastic!!
Post 10 IP   flag post
falconshakka private msg quote post Address this user
yes great man
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alx3D private msg quote post Address this user
I recently had a routine scan where I went to the porch. The exterior trimming of the mesh completely failed and gave very odd texture.

This is response from MP:
"The consensus is as you suspected (that this is related to the new hole filling). Engineering is already making some adjustments, though since this is a work in progress no release date has been set."

I also did very large outdoor area today that I test uploaded before doing the interior because of this thread and my previous problem. It turned out fine but the full scan is still processing.

Post 12 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
Alex, did you shoot the pool model at dusk so there was not interference from the sun's IR? This was the point that Glenn was making on daylight shoots. In the past I believe that the camera was a bit more forgiving but now any sign of IR will present issues for the capture app. In my case the capture app accepted the scan but SC would not let me access these scans although Workshop would let me move to and from them, very strange.
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alx3D private msg quote post Address this user
No I shot the pool scan at about 10am with heavy cloud cover and the sun behind the house.

That does sound very strange. Do you mind sharing the model?
Post 14 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum Founder DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you (all). I am in the midst of a day-long $1 million 2-story penthouse shoot on the 30th floor today.

Breathing, unobstructed views of Piedmont Park, Stone Mountain and the Atlanta skyline.

I am on lunch break waiting for sunset 😎 to capture the very large outdoor patio. Obviously a huge selling point for this listing.

As you can imagine, I read all your posts on this topic.

I am lucky that the sun will be blocked by a portion of the building. That's when I will begin shooting.

So thankful for your insight above.

By the way, uploaded the model via 4G so I can (hopefully) review when I start capturing later.

When I am done with the final version with the addition of the outdoor deck, I will add it below.

Also, I was able to exclude a giant construction crain both by positioning the camera and timing the crain's movements to be out of view. Took extra long, but worth it. We only schedule one shoot a day to deal with lighting, the unexpected, etc.

It will be a nice surprise and delight for our client.



(Capture done inside to outside. While bright sky, no direct sunlight = magic)
Post 15 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
Alex, here are the initial raw captures of the models before I've did any editing.

The first you can move to the last outdoor scans only via your track wheel on your mouse, you can't click on the circles at least in the SC you can in WS. If you move to the last 2 circles outside you can't make your way back into the house. In addition the very last scan is blank facing the lawn, you have to turn a 180 to see the house.

In the second model, Gilly Flower you can only access the 2 most outdoors circles via WS. In both models the scans aligned OK during capture. I'd be interested in your feedback.

Post 16 IP   flag post
CKC private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Gary,

Such a beautiful scan!!

Looks like the crazy sunlight just failed the scan points? Any answer from MP yet?
Post 17 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user

Yes Glenn provided me a very details explanation above of the issues with the IR from the sun even though it was heavy overcast. He recommends always shooting at dusk as the sun's IR rays will have eased off.
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alx3D private msg quote post Address this user
Hey Gary,

I have never seen the 180 degrees of blackness like in your first model you shared. Does the trim line run very close to that point?

Yes so how I think I understand the scanner works is by projecting a IR grid and then seeing the distortion of it when viewed from a slightly different angle. Sunlight and extremely bright (hot may be more accurate) indoor lights give too much noise for the scanner to pick up a good signal. Some surfaces are better than others and can be picked up more easily.

I think what happened in your first model is that, when outside, the scanner was able to pick up enough information for alignment by seeing the porch (who had a little IR protection by that overhang). I think the problem was that although it could tell where it was located it could not see anything past the porch (too much IR noise) and therefore could not create a mesh past the porch.

Because the location of the scan was known and but there was no mesh to place the rings on, the rings appear to be floating in space. It also seems the scroll wheel and arrow keys move you in the direction of the closest ring in that direction but clicking requires an underlying mesh to click on to function. Because there is no mesh click travel does not work (This seems like it could be fixed in software)

Below is an example that kind of includes all the stuff we are talking about. Good cover and shade in front made for a nice outdoor scan. In the back, too much IR nose made the ground unrecognisable but was able to still pick up location and other surfaces.

Hint- I marked backyard walls as windows because although the scanner did not pick them up, a window requires not mesh.

Wish list- Similar functionality for ground. Make a window like texture on the ground for where the scanner is not picking it up.
Post 19 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Alex

Very logical explanation as well as suggestion in accessing none clickable circles. It would be nice if we can some how stitch these additional scans manually. I believe that MP can do this so it would seem logical that in the future they could give us access as well to manual stitching.

Thanks again for your suggestions and help.
Post 20 IP   flag post
ron0987 private msg quote post Address this user
Outdoor scans, we were doing exterior scans as Matterport described and was able to get it done thru open doors. But this weekend I did a house and left the patio door open to move out onto the patio. On this day we now have an issue where we could not move thru the open door. I sent Matterport a request to look at it and this is what they sent back.

Hello Ron,

Interesting -- it looks like there may be some trimming and window markings nearby. I can't tell for sure, but I'd review that as a first step, and remove any if there.

I'm also seeing some strange geometry in the doorway that isn't helping things -- that may be a product light bouncing off the glass door and screen door.

Unfortunately, since outdoor scanning isn't supported, there's not a lot we can do. Bright sunlight gives off a lot of confusing data, which may also be contributing to the errors.

Apologies for the headache

So now I think it is going to be harder since the last update. The other thing on one of my exterior scans it delete 180 degrees of photo's leaving it black. Not happy about it.
Post 21 IP   flag post
GarySnyder private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Ron
I had the very same issues especially with the 180 degrees to black. If you didn't know what was going on you would almost be lost in space as there is nothing unless you are aware you need to turn around and see the other half of the scan.

I wonder if there has been some losses on their development team and the staff who are now developing the capture app are not as good and what we're seeing as well as paying the prices are these major bugs.

I would expect with so many companies wanting to move into the VR world the good developers at MP are being headhunted and what is left are the junior developers who may not even understand the full extent of the code and that is why we’re seeing these bugs pop up.

I do hope that is not the case but several of the promised tools and developments which MP touted have not come to pass so far and that may be the reason.
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