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AlignmentBIMBLK360DensityLeica BLK360LiDARMatterportOutdoorPro2

BLK360 + Pro2 in one tour, how to combine both?15500

Wingman private msg quote post Address this user
Hi guys,

I am getting familiar with BLK360 operation under Matterport and it is kind of pretty much straight forward. You can just keep scans 5-7 meters apart and it should work even in sunlight.

However my attempts to add Pro2 scans to BLK360 scans are kind of failing. I have scanned my yard and it is pretty much have all ground covered on a minimap. I have two fences coming together at one spot and BLK360 scans have defined both really well at 4 and 7 meters scans from them. I am trying to make a pro2 just one meter from the spot where the fences connect at 90 degrees and BLK360 scans are just 3 and 6 meters away and Matterport says no alignment for a pro2 scan.

Then I move under my pergola close to a house wall and despite of the closest BLK360 scan sitting the same 3 meters away a pro2 scan aligns.

That makes me thinking that I am probably not doing something right because I cannot understand why the fences are not used with a pro2 scan to define and align geometry in that spot?

People are asking me through DMs what is the best way to use both BLK360 and a Pro2 in one tour but it seems I honestly do not know.

I have watched Matterport videos about using BLK360 but they are very basic, they have more technical data than a best way to use both cameras.

BTW, I have tested speed of scanning today testing only HDR OFF and HDR 3. First HDR off is fast but that's what will give you completelly blown up windows.. interior is not the best but ok. HDR3 is probably what you want if you want to bring a little bit views through windows. I have not tested anything in between or after HDR3. All time with alignment recorded with me standing very close to my BLK360. If you are much further away data transfer can be very slow.


Here are the numbers(time in minutes):

LOW DENSITY
HDR OFF: 1:30(move a camera message) / 1:40(finished, including data transfer and alignment)
HDR3: 2:42 or 2:51

MEDIUM DENSITY
HDR OFF: 2:28 / 2:45
HDR3: 3:33 / 3:48

HIGH DENSITY
HDR OFF: 4:21 / 5:20
HDR3: 5:26 / 6:20


DENSITY meaning is exactly what it is. The scanner seems to see as far as it can independently of what density is chosen but depending on selected density it is either rotates slowly or shoot the mirror at more stops than a lesser density. As a result we are getting more points generated at greater distances.
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ThinkLab private msg quote post Address this user
@Wingman had the same problems, see sample : https://my.treedis.com/tour/ruhm3d-cove-beach , this scan was done over two days and was not perfect or what I would have delivered to a paying client. Could have created a better experience with 3Dvista.

I had to get Dee from Matterport to stitch it. I was even in contact with the CEO of Leica Geosystems that created the BLK , and they said its not Matterport who did the integration but Leica.

Also the scanning times takes too long especially on bigger projects where you need a natural walkthrough and not jumping 10 - 15 meters between scan points.

For construction and BIM its a very powerful system and more affordable Ethan the bigger Lidar scanners on the market. And the accuracy over 30 meters is 0.3 mm , so Matterport can never claim they have a 1% accuracy. We have tested it and `Matterport on all scan are at least more than 1 inch out. On over a distance the variables becomes to big.

But enjoy the new toy, its nice to use in big unditrial spaces to do a cortex fill and safes you hours in capturing.
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Wingman private msg quote post Address this user
Are you saying you could not align pro2 scans on BLK360 scans at all?

I am not worried too much about accuracy for now as I do venues and it is only critical when a floor plan needed. I bet most of my clients will agree with 32MP BLK360 resolution but there will be some that will ask for 134MP of a Pro2 even outdoor and I am trying to understand what is the best workflow of using both of them outdoor.
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Gladsmuir private msg quote post Address this user
Hi @Wingman,
A really simple question, arising from my experience of the weather in Brisbane being typically sunny.
Are you shooting the outdoor Matterport scans at dawn/dusk?
My experience combining the BLK and Matterport was that the infra red light during daylight meant that the Matterport was in reality just capturing the image, the data capture was negligible.
The result was as you describe, the BLK data was in effect the only data.
I cannot think of any work around, other than avoiding direct sunlight with the Matterport.
Oliver
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ThinkLab private msg quote post Address this user
@Wingman yes it would not align, spiny over two hours , nearly smashed the camera to pieces. But was on loan from Leica. Afterwards the problem was with Matterport.

It can speed up the workflow when you have very long hallways , and with outdoor spaces filling in large areas.

Image quality is not Bad on the Leica, and you can capture in direct sunlight, it does not look blown out like you get with Matterport.

Have a look at that tour I shared. Walk to the middle area and look back at the Dubai Eye ( big wheel ) and you will see even with the Leica you get broken artefacts on tours. This is something I never had with Geocv on any of the scans I have done with it. And also the Geocv filled in spaces much better than Matterport and had a faster workflow. Bonus could edit the panos at no charge.
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ThinkLab private msg quote post Address this user
@Gladsmuir I started outside then moved inside the reception, wanted to do that and the below washrooms. But the Matterport just did not want to connect to the BLK scans did extra BLK scans at the entrances etc. Just did not work, sun was no factor here. Have a look at the sample tour I shared.
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Harrycayman private msg quote post Address this user
Hi Wingman

I use both Matterport Pro 2 and BLK. The BLK is for outside and Matterport for inside. So when i get to the door going inside i do BLK , then on exactly the same spot i start with Matterport. Its the same procedure if i started inside and want to go outside. Its common as you switch between the two to get a message 75% time saying low density scan . If you do BLK outside and try Matterport outside in direct sunlight it will not align.

I too am learning so will see if others add to this post.

Harry
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Wingman private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladsmuir
A really simple question, arising from my experience of the weather in Brisbane being typically sunny.
Are you shooting the outdoor Matterport scans at dawn/dusk?
My experience combining the BLK and Matterport was that the infra red light during daylight meant that the Matterport was in reality just capturing the image, the data capture was negligible.
The result was as you describe, the BLK data was in effect the only data.
I cannot think of any work around, other than avoiding direct sunlight with the Matterport.
Oliver


It is sunny most of the time but the spot where a Pro2 scan did not align was in a deep shade. I know clouds do not save much from infrared but something huge on a way of sunlight helps.

That's how I scanned local racecourse club outdoor. The sun was behind a big building, there was no direct sunlight on the ground and my Pro2 worked without any problem, almost like indoor. The shade on my yard is not from a building though, it is coming from huge bushes, trees and palms around. So that may be a problem as infrared will go through it. I still have all scans from that tour and when I get my camera return to me from repair I will try to do that spot after Sunset.

That actually may explain why scanning under the pergola roof worked with a Pro2 and aligned with the BLK360 scans.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycayman
I use both Matterport Pro 2 and BLK. The BLK is for outside and Matterport for inside. So when i get to the door going inside i do BLK , then on exactly the same spot i start with Matterport. Its the same procedure if i started inside and want to go outside. Its common as you switch between the two to get a message 75% time saying low density scan . If you do BLK outside and try Matterport outside in direct sunlight it will not align.


It is not a problem to do it the way you are doing, I just want to see how I can add hi res pro2 images as scans for outdoor on top of BLK360 scans.

Something telling me that if I follow all BLK360 scans one by one it would work. However it would mean switching cameras every scan and that's just too much time. I will ty to crack it.

If you remember @metroplex360 first experience with a BLK360 he has somehow done Pro2 scans on top of BLK360 scans outdoor.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkLab
Have a look at that tour I shared. Walk to the middle area and look back at the Dubai Eye ( big wheel ) and you will see even with the Leica you get broken artefacts on tours.


Can you please send me a direct link to that spot in your tour.
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ThinkLab private msg quote post Address this user

Post 11 IP   flag post
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user
Do you mean misalignment on the wheel? I cannot see anything really awful apart from some misalignment
Post 12 IP   flag post
ThinkLab private msg quote post Address this user
@Wingman yes on the wheel.And the wheel is about 200 meters away... Normally what I have seen on my last 50 scans I have done with the Pro2 there is not a tour with broken artefacts in it. It is horrible, and nothing Matterport can do about it. And the biggest joke is that Geocv did it way better than them, never had the problem, even scanning close to glass, aliminuim and door ways , no broken artefacts ever.

I have addressed this with Matterport, but have just given up as that is the quality of a Matterport Scan and there is nothing we can do about it was the feedback from them. Wish they would invest more time and money into making the system better than trying to scan the world, leave the scanning to us and build a better product. But that is how Matterport is , what is always better for Matterport and not for us the people / monkeys pushing the button on an iPad.

I have a lot of clients waking up and want self hosting, they don't want to be trapped in their eco system. So Matterport better start coming to the table.
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jcyin private msg quote post Address this user
I’m planning on renting a BLK360 from a local distributor for a test run before committing to one.

If I’m scanning a large outdoor space with a lot of trees / foliage and I don’t need the dollhouse, would keeping HDR3 but setting scan density to low result in an acceptable virtual tour experience comparable to a Pro 2 result?
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Harrycayman private msg quote post Address this user
Hi
Setting scan density to low works fine for a virtual tour. If you need measurements for as built then don't set to low.

harry
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jcyin private msg quote post Address this user
Okay thanks a lot! Do you know if it’s possible to scan using the BLK360 using the Matterport capture app with an iPhone? Or does it only work with the capture app on iPad.

Thanks!
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Harrycayman private msg quote post Address this user
I only use iPad. but i don't see why the Matterport capture app on iPhone wont work.
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