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Matterport Webinar: Which device and why? | Thursday, 29 April 202114775

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Start your Matterport 3D capture journey: Which device and why?
Thursday, 29 April 2021 | 9am PDT, 5pm BST, 6pm CEST

Join Matterport’s in-house expert Amir Frank and guests for a 30 minute deep-dive into the full selection of Matterport Compatible devices. We will introduce the latest 360 cameras to join the line-up, discuss the new Android compatibility and share top tips on what to use...when, and why! There will also be a Q&A with the chance to get your questions answered live.

Matterport Webinar Speakers

Amir Frank, Matterport Marketing Content Manager
Mark Carroll, Matterport Senior Solutions Engineer
John McBay, Perfect Exposure Imaging Owner

Register for Free Matterport Webinar | Noon EDT Thursday, 29 April 2021
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Matterport Video: Start your 3D capture journey: which device and why?

Transcript (video)

Amir Frank (00:02):
Welcome, welcome, everybody. Thanks for joining us in this webinar. We're very, very excited to be here today and talk to you about all these different cameras and image quality and well, the different cameras that we support, basically. So with that said, we've got a ton of things to cover. So I want to really dive in and get going. So just go ahead and make sure that your audio is working and we can get started.

Amir Frank (00:29):
You will notice at the very bottom of your Zoom panel, I guess there's a little Q&A button. Click that, go ahead and submit your questions at any time. We've got somebody who can kind of help answer them as we're going through the webinar. And at the end, hopefully, we'll have time for a live Q&A. So in today's webinar, we've got Mark Carroll with us. He's a sales engineer out of our Chicago office. And I had a kind of a short interview with John McBay, who's a photographer in the real estate industry. And unfortunately, with the limited amount of time that we have today, didn't get to us the entire interview, but we'll get to some of his thoughts and perspectives, which is very interesting, coming from photography, which I'm sure a lot of you come from there as well.

Amir Frank (01:14):
So today, we're going to be introducing 3D Capture, brief talk about Android, Matterport compatible devices. And we'll have some side by side comparisons. We also have a blog that I wrote up. Now it's going to go out to everybody, I think like tomorrow or something like that. Everybody who registered will get that. And that's going to have some links, and we'll get more into that. And we'll talk about it a little bit. And then as I said, Q&A at the end.

Amir Frank (01:44):
Very, very quickly, a little bit about Matterport. If you don't know who we are, if you haven't heard about Matterport, we have 5 million spaces under management. These are models that people have scanned, 230,000 users, and we just keep popping up Matterport offices in different locations around the world. So if you haven't heard of Matterport, you probably will pretty soon.

Amir Frank (02:12):
Cortex, I want to touch a little bit about Cortex, because it's very important to the cameras that we'll be talking about. So I think you should have a little understanding about what this is before we go any further. Cortex is, it's a processing engine that takes 2D panoramas and converts them into 3D. So the 5 million spaces under management that I just told you about, that's the database for Cortex basically. So we have millions and billions of scan positions that have been scanned with something like the Matterport Pro2 camera and Pro1 camera. And that camera, along with something like the BLK that we'll touch on, they can not only see the 2D panoramas that they capture, but they also see in 3D. So we're taking those assets, that data and using what we know as 2D geometry, along with the 2D panoramas that was captured at the time, and using that to build this machine learning engine that goes through and says, "Okay, this is my 2D panorama that I see that was just captured from my iPhone or from this 360 camera. What's my best guess as to what the 3D geometry should be like, based on the 2D panel that you're giving me?"

Amir Frank (03:42):
So that's what Cortex is, it's this engine. It keeps getting better the more models that get into the system. As of today, it's actually really quite remarkable what you can do. Its dimensional accuracy is between 4% to 8%. So that's really amazing. So that is Cortex and Android, everybody listening to this live, Android is officially a thing, has been a thing. For a little while now, we're supporting Android, currently, at the time of the recording of this webinar, in the sense that you can use Android, your Android device to connect to any one of the 360 cameras that we support, as well as the Matterport camera.

Amir Frank (04:30):
As you may know, it's not ready yet to use as a capture device itself so you can't use the camera on your Android. But we are working on that. And maybe if you're watching this later on after the recording, after we're doing this live, then maybe Android is a thing. So check it out if you can use your phone.

Amir Frank (04:50):
Real quick, just wanted to cover the building lifecycle. This is one of those things that really separates Matterport, and I don't have the time to really dive into this unfortunately, but Matterport is not just a virtual walkthrough. So I know a lot of you are coming to us from real estate, and you see Matterport as a way of promoting and selling those real estate assets. And that's great. And it definitely does a great job with that. But it's an actual asset in the sense that the value of a Matterport model is so much more than just to the real estate agent. People, the buyer of the home, the seller of the home, can find value in that asset. Insurance is finding value in the Matterport asset, repair contractors, construction, architects, the entire building lifecycle, everybody who touches this structure from creating it, first designing it, building it, whether it's being more efficient in your collaboration with team members, having that sentimental value to sellers of homes who have lived there for 30 years. I mean, you name it, the building lifecycle, that's kind of what sets Matterport apart is that these models can be used throughout the entire lifecycle. So that's something that's very, very important.

Amir Frank (06:19):
Demo model. All right. So if some of you may have not experienced the Matterport model, and again, just see it as kind of like this virtual walkthrough to promote real estate, I just wanted to come over here and show you this quick demo model. When I go into this model and show you what this is like, you can see that we've got these little Matter tags that you can embed certain content. In this case, a video was embedded, you can embed PDF brochures, you can embed moisture readings for things like insurance industries. You can take measurements. Using the measurement tool, I can add a measurement here and see what the distance is there. So, a lot of different things that you can do. If you're in here, I can go into the dollhouse view and really get a bird's eye perspective. See it in the floor plan view.

Amir Frank (07:16):
So if you haven't seen this, it's not a video. I'm in complete control. It is a 3D model. And it has both the 3D data, which allows you things like measurements to better estimate wall space and floor space and things like that, as well as the 2D panoramas. So it's everything combined there. So these are some, not all but some of the cameras that we currently support. This is the lineup. We've got the Matterport Pro2 that you see on the very left, like a BLK, few 360 cameras that we use. This is again, going back to a Cortex allows us to use these cameras to generate a 3D model, even though they don't themselves capture 3D. And your iOS device, your iPhone and your iPad right now can be used as capture devices. Again, Android, we're working on it, it's coming soon. Maybe if you're not watching this live, then it's already out.

Amir Frank (08:22):
So now let's go ahead and answer one of the questions. This is a question that came in before the webinar we had during the registration process. You probably saw it. And so we peppered a couple of these questions in here. Can you organize a complete or a comparable samples video with all devices shooting the same space? It would be very useful, helpful to decide the performance due to price. Yes, yes we can do that. We have done that. I will be providing a link to the blog post that we created accompanying this webinar. That blog post is going to have links to eight models that I shot with just about every different camera that we support, except for the BLK, only because it's residential real estate and that's not really relevant in that case.

Amir Frank (09:11):
But check out the blog. It will be mailed out, and you can visit and just walk through every single one of those. I did my best to have it during the same time of day and having the camera, each camera positioned in exactly the same spot in every one. So I did everything I could to make it the same. And so you're really just doing the best to compare image quality and things like that.

Amir Frank (09:37):
Mark. Hi, I didn't get a chance to properly introduce you because I'm just-

Mark Carroll (09:41):
Yeah, no problem. It's good.

Amir Frank (09:43):
I've been zipping through this as fast as I can, because next slides are what I want to focus on. So welcome, welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Mark Carroll (09:51):
Yeah, this is great to sit to see this and each question is important. What I always like to tell people is the importance of thinking about the end result that the person wants to see at their workstation, same sort of devices, they're an option but using different ways. And so that's what I'm hopefully able to help shed some light on.

Amir Frank (10:12):
Perfect, perfect. Yes. And that's exactly what we want to do these next slides. We've got a little bit of a time limit on guidance, just to kind of go on. I know you and I can just talk about this stuff forever pretty much. So basically, I put these next slides together, and gave my opinion on how I would rate them in different attributes of that camera. So let's check it out. Let's talk about this.

Amir Frank (10:41):
So Pro2, we've got the pricing on top, don't need to say much about that. Again, that is current to the recording of this webinar. If you're watching this on demand, check out the maybe new pricing. Measurement accuracy. This, guys is really pretty good. It's within 1%. And the 2D image quality, when I say 2D image quality, I'm talking about, if you take one still image, I'm not talking about even the entire 360 degrees, I'm talking about just one still image, I think it's the best that we have in our supported line, personally.

Amir Frank (11:19):
Speed, I rated it at six out of 10. And that's basically because it's fast. We did something to introduce to improve that. But it's not as fast as something like the 360 cameras. Outdoor capabilities, because it is using structured light, kind of in between, you can do some things. You can work around time of day that you scan to improve that ability for outdoor scanning. And stitching artifacts is another thing that a lot of people are concerned with. And because this camera is taking 18 pictures, that does have to stitch them together to get that full 360. And so you end up with some artifacts. What are your thoughts about this?

Mark Carroll (11:58):
Yeah, the one thing I want to highlight is this tool measures real distances, as well as snapshots. And so earlier, Amir was talking about the Cortex. Cortex is really powered and strong and powerful because of a device like this that captures these excellent images, as well as real measurements. This device is used, I think the most heavily and this is the one that I recommend for the majority of any capture situation with Matterport. It really is that workhorse device.

Amir Frank (12:31):
Yeah, totally agree. Yeah, and even though it's not as accurate as something like the BLK using lasers, I mean we are using infrared here, and you can do things like increase scan density to improve that, being accurate to within 1% I think is really, really good for just about every use case. I mean, I know you use the BLK a ton. And you deal with a lot of customers in that industry who require that more accuracy. Well, how would you rate this compared to I mean-

Mark Carroll (13:06):
One of the biggest benefits to this device is its ability to put it directly into a space that might be really tight, areas known as MEP rooms, which is where you have your mechanicals, your electric and your plumbing. A lot of times they're busy. And this can mean different types of applications too. But so many pipes and surfaces, you want to gather that information somehow. And a lot of times lasers, they have what's known as a focal length limitation, essentially, if you get too close to an object that has a hard time registering it. The Pro2 is great because it's imaging and measurements. And so in those tighter areas, quicker time, that will give you that denser point cloud, denser, it's more accurate, you're able to move around those corners and gather that information quickly. So it really is that excellent tool for that type of application of gathering three dimensional data from inside of a building.

Amir Frank (14:03):
Yeah, I completely agree. I tried scanning my house with the BLK and it did not work well at all. I would not recommend that tool for residential real estate at all, very challenging.

Mark Carroll (14:16):
It's tough. A person who's experienced it, they might be able to work it but you're correct. Some of the other devices, just the capture time alone makes this Pro2 device really stand out among comparative time for the BLK I think is around four minutes, which is very quick for devices of its kind but the Pro2 really is the fast one.

Amir Frank (14:41):
Right, right, completely. I don't want to say anything bad about the BLK being slow but again, it just depends on your use case.

Mark Carroll (14:47):

Amir Frank (14:50):
All right, so next slide. We're out of time on this one, okay, BLK. Measurement accuracy, doesn't get any better. 2D image quality I feel is actually a little bit worse than the Pro2, the reason being basically it uses very, very small imaging sensors. And it's not what it's made to do. That's not its focus. Its focus is measurement accuracy. It is unfortunately the slowest camera that we support. Like you said, it's in its class for doing what it does. It's probably faster than things like the FARO. Outdoor capabilities, second to none, again because it is using laser, has no issues with sunlight. And stitching artifacts, I did put it a little bit higher. And the reason why I set this a little bit higher is not because it's substantially better. If objects were as close as they are to things like the Pro2, if you're doing this in residential real estate, you'd probably run to the same issues. But most of the time, where you're using the Leica is going to be in really big open spaces, even outdoors, where the things that you're scanning are much further away. So that's when you don't really notice those types of stitching artifacts. That's why I rated this higher.

Mark Carroll (16:07):
I agree completely. This tool is a perfect tool in the toolbox if an operation can have it. For the right use case, it's an excellent tool to use.

Amir Frank (16:18):
I mean, so with your experience, you've actually got a little bit more experience with the Leica than I do for sure. What do you think about the 2D image quality compared to something like the other cameras that we support. Are my ratings fair?

Mark Carroll (16:31):
It is and the image quality of the BLK, I happen to have one here, it is an excellent device. But the optics on this device are not as strong as the Pro2, just in its size of the megapixels, it is acceptable. And like you said earlier, the user is able to change the level of the HDR. There actually are a number of settings for this. And so a user can go through those settings and may be able to get a more desirable output. But compared to the Pro2, it hasn't been the same image quality.

Amir Frank (17:09):
Yeah, totally true. The HDR setting can be adjusted, which will improve image quality, but also radically increases the amount of time that it takes. I mean the highest setting is like five or something like that.

Mark Carroll (17:23):
It's correct. And you can turn it off entirely, and that visualization is quite poor. You can also change the density of the laser, the middle range is best and for this imaging quality too for that, it is also best around level three. But it does a satisfactory job of imaging, to put it in an accurate way.

Amir Frank (17:51):
So your recommendation for settings if someone would use this was the HDR set to three?

Mark Carroll (17:58):
That's correct.

Amir Frank (17:59):
And the density, the scan density set to what? Medium?

Mark Carroll (18:02):
To medium, and so a user who hooks up their BLK360 to the Matterport platform will find it at level three of the HDR and the middle range as a default. The option menus appear when this device is connected to the Capture App, so operators are able to go through. The other thing I wanted to highlight is there's two stages of capture. You attach this to the tripod, and it does its work. The Pro2 goes one rotation and snaps images and measurements at the exact same time. Compared to the BLK360, it does two full rotations in its own time. The first rotation is just images, and the second is just laser section, which means that there's a possibility of some changes within your space. If it's a busy active worksite, you may have objects change visualization to laser. It's not a big deal for alignment. But it's just because the four minute time, you may have that disparity in data. Another positive about the Pro2.

Amir Frank (19:10):
Yeah, that's interesting. Also something that I just want to mention, I know we're out of time on this slide, but what we're looking at here is actually the backside of the camera. And what some people don't know is that when they're outside, they feel like you can't hide anywhere. You can actually walk around the backside of this camera. When you first hit the Scan button, it will turn around really fast and you think, "Oh, I didn't get out of the way." It's only capturing white balance with that scan. And so don't even worry about not getting out of the way when it's actually doing the 2D and the 3D scanning that does it pretty slowly and you can just walk around the backside.

Mark Carroll (19:45):
That's correct.

Amir Frank (19:46):
All right. 360 cameras, so this is kind of interesting. Just want to explain myself a little bit here. Currently, the Ricoh Theta SC2 is the lowest cost 360 camera that we support. Their measurement accuracy, it's not as good as the Pro2 and certainly not as good as the Leica. Again, we're using Cortex to convert these 2D panoramas into a 3D model that you can actually use for measurements. So it's accurate to within 4% to 8%. Image quality, I kind of have staggered here from not so good to pretty darn good. And that's just because it depends on which 360 camera you go with.

Amir Frank (20:29):
So, with my experience, something like the SC2 is not going to result in the best image quality. I think image quality is very subjective. You'll get to read more about that in the blog. But that's just my personal opinion. And something like the Ricoh Theta Z1 is actually remarkably good and does a very good job. Speed, no question. It's a snap. It's three seconds and you're done. Outdoor capabilities is pretty good. It's not as good as something like the BLK. We're using Cortex. Keep that in mind. So because Cortex doesn't have as many outdoor scans as it does indoor scans, that learning engine, that machine learning doesn't have as much data to base those scans on.

Amir Frank (21:18):
So if you are scanning outdoors with these, a pro tip is to kind of stay within five, six feet or roughly two meters of structures that are identifiable, the exterior walls, furniture, if it's like a patio, things like that. So they can latch on to that and identify them. Stitching artifacts, probably the best because you're talking about two 180 degree panels, or two 180 degree images that are kind of stitched together. So you have only a single kind of seam as opposed to many images that have to be put together. So what's your take on this one, Mark?

Mark Carroll (21:54):
I think these are excellent tools that I think the one is if you consider your work and use case, battery life should be a consideration. Some of the devices have a swappable battery, and some of them have a built in battery. So think about that ahead of time as well as things like maybe you're on air that's more... but topples over to concrete in an active worksite. So think about that type of considerations. But I think these are great as a supplemental tool for people who have a Pro2 device. And so for other folks who would like to have this have application, these are great tools to have, only by as a user would only have this device and then later on may move to a Pro2 for different applications.

Amir Frank (22:45):
Yeah, I completely agree. I think these are great as you said as not only I guess supplemental devices, you can use something like the Ricoh Z1. It has very, very good image quality considering and a lot of people are just using that because it's so fast, it just makes the work so much more efficient. But also a lot of use cases aren't really, speed is the main metric that they want to base things off. So they don't necessarily need a very, very high image quality camera. They just need speed. Because for example, with insurance, they've already captured the space pre mitigation with a Pro2 to get all the measurements that they need. And then the second, the post mitigation, they scan with something like the Ricoh or any of the 360 cameras because they're just looking for speed and efficiency and collaboration with teammates. They're not looking for high, high image quality.

Mark Carroll (23:43):
That's correct. And one little tip I wanted to throw out there was whenever you capture with a 360 unit, you of course are also 3D data. So if you snap next to it and you move around, move around, I would recommend finding a place in the room that you may return to, so you do not become 3D data that confuses things, just a little tip.

Amir Frank (24:06):
Absolutely. These cameras help with exercise a lot because placing the camera, running and hiding, coming back, moving the camera, running and hiding and so on, so there's a lot more walking involved, which is good for me.

Amir Frank (24:18):
Okay, so let's go on to the next one. And I wanted to just play this short video. This is John's thoughts on the Ricoh Theta SC2 that I sent him to test against his iPhone 11 that he uses. So let's just check this out real quick.

Amir Frank (24:38):
Start by just kind of letting everybody know where you're coming from. You've been a photographer in real estate or just a photographer in general, and for how long?

John McBay (24:50):
For about 15 years and pretty much, I specialize in residential real estate photography, although I do do some commercial also.

Amir Frank (24:59):
Got it. So most recently, as of I think it was like last year, we introduced the iPhone as a supported camera that can be used with your Matterport models when capturing, and you ran with that and did such an amazing job that we had you help us out with a blog. And I sent you recently a Ricoh SC2, which is a camera that we support to test that against your iPhone 11. And what I wanted to get from you really, for this webinar is your take on your experience with the SC2 specifically, and your iPhone 11 and the Pro2. You've tested all of them at this point and just kind of get your take on the major differences between those.

John McBay (25:44):
Yeah, so I have been using the iPhone now for, I guess, close to a year. And if I had to guess, I've probably done 30 tours with the iPhone. I had a chance to use the Pro2 for a month or so to test it out. And I did some extensive testing against the iPhone, and I had a chance to use the Theta for a relatively short period of time. So the major differences, at least the ones that I think are most important, and in order of importance are first of all, image quality. And I've found that I was very pleasantly surprised at how well the iPhone did in comparison to the Pro2. I think that the Pro2 images in some respects are cleaner and better than the iPhone images, but not by a real lot. And it seems that the underlying software seems to be doing better, at least in my opinion. Or maybe I'm doing better, but it seems that over the year, the tours that have been produced, that are produced with the iPhone are actually getting better. So I don't know if it's me or your software or both. But I think that both of them produce really good images.

John McBay (27:10):
I had only a short time to use the Theta. And the reason was because I did a number of scans to test it out. And when you look closely at the scans, there was a real lack of definition in fine detail. And it wasn't like it was out of focus, although parts of the image without a focus or part of the tour looked out of focus with the SC2. But there was actual degradation of the ability to display fine detail. It just got all blotchy and smeared. If you're looking at it from far away, it's not so bad. But in certain parts of the tour, you aren't always far away from things. So I found that the image quality of the Theta 2 was nowhere near as good as the other two. Do you have any other thoughts, Amir about what you'd like to compare amongst them?

Amir Frank (28:09):
No, I think those are the main points that I see as differences between the cameras. I mean, certainly the Pro2 has other benefits in terms of like measurement accuracy. So it just kind of goes back to how important is image quality versus ease of use versus price versus measurement accuracy and taking all of that into consideration. But I think you nailed it. Well, thank you so much, John, for helping us kind of get your perspective, having used the iPhone 11 for so much, and get your thoughts on how it compares with the Pro2 and 360 camera, the Ricoh Theta SC2 in your case.

John McBay (28:51):
You bet. My pleasure.

Amir Frank (28:53):
All right, so with that said, let's just go talk about the iPhone. So Smartphone Capture, currently supported with iOS. You can use your iPhone, you can use your iPad, and Android is soon to come. But yeah, I'm also with a lot of photography in my background, so I can see the differences in image quality that John is talking about. But I just wanted to point out that image quality alone is really never the only thing that should be taken into consideration when trying to decide which one of these cameras is going to best suit your needs.

Amir Frank (29:35):
All right, so measurement accuracy. This one is actually not as high as even something like the 360 cameras, only because it really, really depends on the person shooting and how they have their tripod setup, if they're using a tripod at all or if they're just hand holding it. So measurement accuracy is not something I can right now be even estimated to be honest. 2D image quality is actually pretty high. You'll see that in the demo models, when I compare the iPhone 12 to the others. You can see the image quality is pretty darn good. Speed, it's pretty good. It's probably as fast as something like the Pro2, I would say, for someone who's been using it for a while and has it on a tripod. I think again, if you don't have it on a tripod, then it's going to be a lot more challenging. Outdoor capabilities are actually very good. The newer devices with LiDAR, that LiDAR works outdoors, so it's great. Stitching artifacts, probably you'll see more stitching artifacts with this camera than you will with anything else. What do you think, Mark? How much experience do you have with this? How would you compare these?

Mark Carroll (30:49):
I have a lot of experience. One thing to keep in mind like you were just discussing previously with our guest, he was talking about the iPhone 11, which is a very strong tool. And anything going back, I have an iPhone 8 that I use, that device can be used on the Matterport platform. You can use it to capture. Different though is like this device is the iPhone 12 Pro with the LiDAR, it's capturing both image data as well as measurements. And that's what's unique about Matterport is it's able to capture both of those and bring them into the model. So you're getting measurements from images, and you're getting measurements from something like a sensor, or like on this device, a LiDAR sensor, so it does become more accurate. I have had great success with this. And using a tripod that the operator is comfortable with, getting the right angle that you can adjust. And then having it be able to pivot quickly. It's a great tool, and it's quick, I believe. And one last thing, Amir is this device also supports the other devices. So you literally can get this device and then control the BLK or the Pro2 or the 360 units as well as use this, so that's great.

Amir Frank (32:09):
Yeah, completely great. Another thing to keep in mind is that some use cases are going to require or maybe not require but you can do it is using multiple cameras. So you can start by connecting your iPhone to something like the 360. But then when the 360 is having a hard time, maybe you're outdoors or whatever the case might be, you can actually switch to capturing with your iPhone in the same model. So you can connect as many different cameras to the same model and then input all that. It doesn't care.

Mark Carroll (32:42):
That's right. That's right.

Amir Frank (32:43):
Good. Okay, so we've got there. Let's see what else we got. Okay, so we do have a couple more questions that came in prior to the webinar. Tom had a question. Is there compatibility with other software such as AutoCAD and SketchUp once scans have been completed? Yes, that means there is compatibility. There are assets that you can extract, things like the MatterPak, which has the XYZ. It's a point cloud file. It has an OBJ file, which is a mesh 3D file, as well as two dimensional images that you can import all of that into AutoCAD and SketchUp. And I think mostly, Mark, what would you say? People are using these assets today to create their as built within. So it's like, get all the measurements and things like that and then create the as built or-

Mark Carroll (33:37):
That's correct. The biggest use case that I see in customers who are on the DBO, the design, build and operate area is they'll either have a space that they've never seen before and they want to get the measurements from that. And so then they'll take the OBJ or XYZ file from a MatterPak, and use that to facilitate creating that model, all those measurements. And then also groups who already have, let's say, a very strong laser copy of their building, maybe they're in manufacturing, and they have the walls very well set. A Pro2 unit, for example, can take out that point cloud data and combine it with that very strong laser data to answer questions like is my manufacturing line, can I scoot it a little bit and put that new machine in there? And this is the sort of information where you have multiple channels of data, and so yes, there are as far as a direct interface, like a connection where the user is in Revit, there are always things that are being worked on. Right now, it is that manual process of a user taking it from our MatterPak into something like ReCap, if that's the workflow into something, into Autodesk, into Revit, and then that process, that standardized way that Autodesk lays out for things like point cloud use in their platform.

Amir Frank (35:04):
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. All right. So next question from George. So the way I see it is that the smartphones and they're getting really, really good as far as their imaging quality, they're introducing LiDAR now, will it replace existing expensive cameras? I don't think today that it will replace them. I think we're still seeing. It's going to be a while, I think. My personal prediction is that it's going to be a long time still, before somebody like the Pro2 can be replaced by an iPhone. So yeah, that's just my thought on that.

Mark Carroll (35:48):
You're right, Amir, and it's certain use cases that I would focus on. So a direct replacement, I don't think it's a direct replacement. But the iPhone with LiDAR, for example, people are able to accomplish specific tasks. Maybe there's a business owner who owns a number of businesses and their employees have units like an iPhone or these devices, and they can gather information from the field with these devices, but there's nothing that that also will replace a well planned out Pro2 device in that, let's say, a restaurant or in a store. So thinking about planning out well established times to go and capture with the Pro2, or a BLK, that's a milestone days is excellent, but also thinking about 360 units, iPhones or other devices that a person may have in their pocket, that they can then enter data into the company's platform into their library of information. That's the value of having all these devices that are option available.

Amir Frank (36:55):
Yeah, exactly. Your point that you made, the example that you gave about stores, I'm thinking like, let's say somebody like Subway, they have so many branches, so many stores throughout the country in the world, it doesn't really make sense for them to scan using something like the Pro2. It's just too many. It would take too long. But every one of their managers probably has an iPhone, and soon Android is going to be supported. So they can just send out an email, say, "Hey, use this application, scan the facility." And then they can use that information to see, "Okay, all these need ovens replaced. And do we have enough space for that kind of thing?", and so on and so forth. So I think that's where we're going with that.

Amir Frank (37:43):
All right, Anna's question, is it possible to shoot a walkthrough of an empty room then add photos? Yes, actually that is possible. We have third party companies, [inaudible 00:37:56] and who else? And I don't know if [inaudible 00:38:01] does this, but RoOomy and others that can virtually stage your model. So if you have an empty apartment, for example, then you go and scan it, but you want it virtually staged, that can be done. Absolutely.

Mark Carroll (38:15):
Yeah. And even better than that, too, is Matterport has what's known as an SDK, software development kit, as well as an API. And at first, this might seem like a daunting task. But really, it's some JavaScript connected in there. There are many ways to do this. But it's an excellent way to use the information and some of the things you're talking about, being able to overlay information, well, that's available right now. So it's not something that's coming down the line. A user can contact Matterport and get more information about that. But your person could do just what you're saying, absolutely. You can add pictures to the wall, stage your home. But Amir is correct to say that there are partners who already offer these services, but a person who's willing to learn could get right into it and do it themselves as well.

Amir Frank (39:08):
All right, let's see what else we got. Good and reach out to us. That's pretty much it for the presentation. We'll go into Q&A. But if you do have any questions, concerns, please reach out with any feedback regarding you know the information of the webinar in general. You can reach out to us at and check us out at

Amir Frank (39:30):
With that said, oh I did want to go in to a couple of these examples. So here is some of the sample models that I captured. This was captured with a Theta Z1. And if I go in here and walk around and get an idea of what this space looks like when captured with a Ricoh, look for things like stitching artifacts, look at brightness, contrast, color qualities. When you compare these, if that's what you're looking for, and that's exactly why I did this, is so that you can have a pretty direct comparison.

Amir Frank (40:11):
The next one is the iPhone 12. Let's look at that real quick. You can already see the difference between these two. It's pretty substantial. Here, I'm seeing a little bit less brightness come from the outside, so that's good. But overall, it's a little bit brighter, a little bit cooler. This is a much warmer tone. So these are the kinds of things that you know that I look at when judging image quality. And so check that out. Again, in the follow up email, you'll have a link to the blog. That will have all of these listed. There's eight models in total.

Amir Frank (40:49):
So I am going to stop sharing so we can focus on Q&A. Unfortunately, we are almost out of time. How are you doing, Mark? I'm totally fine with going on here. Can you spare another 15 minutes so we can do a couple of these questions?

Mark Carroll (41:08):
Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to.

Amir Frank (41:10):
Right. So we will just close my questions panel. All right. So feel free. Go ahead. Well we've got a whole bunch of questions, feel free, Mark to just open up your questions panel. We'll try and rapid fire these guys and have at it if you can see that. If you can't, just let me know and I'll read them off.

Mark Carroll (41:31):
I can. Yeah, I got so things, just to start off in the beginning, things like Joey asked about different countries like the DR. We do have, Dominican Republic, we do have a lot of different partners around. So I think that you could contact Matterport and we can connect, trying to find someone to work with you to scan for you or if you want to do business yourself in that country, I think we can connect offline. But yes, we are all over the world.

Amir Frank (42:01):
Alex asked how are the generated PDF floor plans created? Are they traditional blueprint style, or are they PDF with top down views with photos? So photos are not included in our floor plans. They are also not really blueprint. They are schematic floor plans, so it's really just black and white. We do have measurements taken of each room. And then at the bottom, you'll see the general square footage for the entire model. So that's how those look. And then if you go to our support page, and just look up floor plans, you can actually download a sample and see exactly what it looks like.

Mark Carroll (42:45):
Another question that Peter put in there was about supporting things like the SC2 as a supported device. And sometimes it takes longer. Different devices will be quicker. And I think part of that may have to do with the device itself if the device has processing itself. So there's a lot of different variables. I think that that, compared to other devices may be a little slower. But I think it also has to do with WiFi sometimes in a space that's transitioning, but shouldn't take too long. It's moments.

Amir Frank (43:25):
Yeah, interesting comparison between the Ricoh and the Insta. For some reason, I think either the WiFi is just better with Insta360. But all the Ricohs that I used to create those models, the SC2, the V and the Z1, they had the same kind of hiccup where I was kind of around the corner, being in the shot. The progress bar would go almost all the way and then it would just kind of hang a little bit. The picture was already taken. So it says capturing so I'm a little bit fearful to get myself in the shot. But in the end, I just popped out from behind the wall and I got a little bit closer to the camera and it transferred over and it was fine. I wasn't in the shot. So even though capture says like it's still scanning, after it gets to really close to all the way done and it kind of hangs a little bit with Ricoh Theta, just go ahead and get close to the camera and that you're done.

Mark Carroll (44:23):
Another one, Randy's asking about dimensional accuracy, 4% to 8%. As more scans, more overlap, will it improve the percentages? You will have a more accurate result with more positions. It's on a denser point cloud and it's just more accurate for that area. And that 4% to 8% is subjective based on the space you're in, how far away you are, things like that. So yes, more positions with overlap would make your results more accurate, yes.

Amir Frank (45:02):
Doug had a question here. Is using the iPhone XR, 10 I guess? Yeah, so you're looking okay, so let me just read this out real quick. Link to supported cameras, please along with pricing, I tried my first upload space and the wall seams are not aligned. I can't present this to my client. So yeah, iPhone is really tricky. And that's why I mentioned you're going to run into the most stitching errors. What Mark is showing right now is actually a really, really good example of what is recommended. Hand holding, it's possible, but it is very, very challenging. You really want to use one of these like monopods, offset the camera. I try, and we'll get into some information in an upcoming ebook about ideal gear that you can use with your iPhone, to kind of align the lens with the center post of the tripod and so on, just to kind of optimize for parallax stitching issues. But yes, you definitely want to use a tripod.

Mark Carroll (46:10):
Yes, and one more thing too, if you have an iPhone that has LiDAR, it's using the LiDAR in a direct scan, like one beam. We are expanding to a complete scan. I won't spend too much time on this down into the weeds, but we are able to do just one rotation. You're able to do multiple rotations, and the rotations in positions goes lower, less of them when you have a more advanced device. So an iPhone 8, you may have several positions. An iPhone 12, you'll have less. So go into those devices. But also keep in mind the idea of using the LIDAR scanner, not complete. And then like one ring. So these are all different variables to get you better results.

Amir Frank (46:57):
Absolutely. Thanks for bringing that up. You're right, if you do have a phone with a wide angle lens, that's what's used by default, the system recognizes that. And that will allow you to do just the one ring. Thereby you're taking very, much fewer images in total, I think six. And you end up with fewer stitching issues as a result. So keep that in mind. If you are using the XR, I don't think that you have that. And so what you're doing is taking two rings, each ring is more than six, it's like eight or so. So you end up with a lot of photos basically in here, you're going to introduce a little bit more. But yeah, we should have the pricing on our pricing page. If you just go to, you'll see all the cameras that we support.

Mark Carroll (47:45):
Absolutely. The next question that I saw and I went over and grabbed my Pro2s, you don't hear it about Cortex, there's no LIDAR on it, how does it work? It's this device here. And then its predecessor, the original Pro model. And it's the ability that this device goes and take snaps and images and measurements at the same time. And it provides that dataset. Matterport, it's not as people say the word photogrammetry, grabbing measurements from images. That is an accurate way that a full data set of information of yours that Matterport has the ability, that's the difference to just an algorithm that just gets a measurement because the algorithm does that. So it's a data set of snaps. And that's how Matterport is able to help facilitate cellphone capture with no LiDAR, 360 cameras, things like that.

Amir Frank (48:40):
Yeah, the Matterport, while it doesn't use LIDAR, it uses structured infrared light. So it's the same light that you have on your remote control for your TV. It's shooting out thousands. Mark, hold up that that camera real quick, just so other people in the front. So what you have here is on the very left side of that, you have kind of a separated stack of sensors. Those aren't sensors. Those are projectors. So those are actually projecting out thousands of little infrared dots all over the place. And on the very right, my right I guess, is the sensor that sees all those little infrared dots. And those two work kind of like your eyes do to judge the distance of that surface where that dot hit and it uses all those measurements. Somehow it does it very quickly to know the distance of surfaces.

Mark Carroll (49:35):
So indeed, and goes to the next question Tom had, which cameras capture data to do dimensional measurements and what do not? Every single Matterport device will generate measurements. So measurement mode works from everything. The accuracy is where we would go then with to say how accurate is the space. A real measurement device like the Pro2 device with the BLK360 will be more accurate yet Matterport's accuracy using just image quality is always improving. And so that is the difference between those different, the different ones there.

Amir Frank (50:19):
Yeah. Another question here that came in. Can these 3D models be imported into programs such as Maya and 3D Studio Max? Yes, data from these models can be imported. What you see in showcase, keep in mind is not only the 3D, but also the 2D panels. And the 2D panels are not going to be imported into Maya and 3D Studio Max. What you're getting is either like a point cloud or an OBJ. And you can import that. You are getting texture map files, so you do have color and things like that. That can then be improved upon and cleaned up a little bit in those applications. It just completely depends on your use case. But bottom line is yes, you can extract that.

Mark Carroll (51:01):
And then also, for those more advanced users, API SDK users are able to access panels as well for all kinds of reasons. So Joey, integrating Matterport tours, virtual tours, creating an outdoor tour with an apartment tower located in the tours, can you add portals to the tours? The overall question like this, and these portals located in the apartment tower, unable to move around to the outdoor and the indoor. It does make sense to me. And what these are known as, as our Mattertags. It's an annotation or different things like that. You can bring in all kinds of different solutions, one, moving from one scan to another is easy, going to embed a digital twin right in the Mattertag, links, PDF documents, all kinds of things. But also beyond that, the API and the SDK world has a lot more integration as well. You can do so to connect, to make it a visual presentation. So absolutely, you can connect spaces. And this also connects with big campus, a large facility, the idea of having one Matterport scan for all the buildings. It's not quite like that. It's best to have a separate scan for this building, and then this quad, and then this building over there. And so the idea of having a campus with interconnected scans, I think that's the most optimal way to do that.

Amir Frank (52:32):
Completely agree. Anonymous asks, I have a Samsung S21 and a Ricoh Theta Z1, and I connect the Ricoh, and when I scan, it keeps scanning. And I don't proceed after this. I think this has something to do with what I was talking about in that this Ricoh issue that I'm also running into. It just gets kind of stuck on that scanning. It's no longer scanning. The picture, it only takes a matter of seconds to capture. So don't worry about getting yourself in the shot. Get yourself a little bit closer to the camera, and you'll see that it kind of fixes itself and moves on and transfers. You can also then go and tap that little scan position that appeared and see if it did catch you in the shot or not to get a little preview image. So it's a nice thing to do before moving on.

Mark Carroll (53:17):
Great. Is the camera compatible with standalone software? Not the Matterport Pro2 unit. If it stands alone by itself, it's not connected to the Matterport Capture App, it does not function. The other devices are able to operate independently from the platform. The best way to use any information though into the platform is through the Capture App. So if I use this 360 camera separately, getting the information out and into the platform is not as straightforward. So I always recommend capturing with the device on the Capture App. And as a side note, Amir is as you know, the scan data, the images will stay in stored on this small 360 as well as a BLK360. The information is not stored on the Pro2. But if the desire is to have that information that's used in a different way, like pulling the BLK360 scans off in a different process, that's also possible as well.

Amir Frank (54:19):
Right. Max asked a really good question. I've used Matterport to show customers our build showroom, and it's been very successful. But I would like to find out if I can take outputs from AutoCAD and use them to create Matterport panoramas to show pre built scenes. That's really interesting. It's not something that is live so I'm kind of hesitant to say anything about this. But if you do have that, reach out to me. You can reach us at E57 files, if you can output an E57 file, we would definitely like to test that so yes, we have done it in the past, and we would absolutely love to work with you, Max, to see if we can do that for you.

Mark Carroll (55:10):
Yeah. Amir, I'm looking at a 268 questions. I'd love to stay all day and answer every single one of these things, because I'm that kind of a guy. But how can we proceed to next steps you think for all these questions?

Amir Frank (55:25):
Yeah, we are, unfortunately, out of time. And this was only supposed to be-

Mark Carroll (55:32):
Great questions. So I'm going through them and they're awesome. I wish I could start answering them all.

Amir Frank (55:36):
What I would like to do, Mark is maybe you and I get together and go through some of these questions, hopefully all of them. But there are a lot of questions, and put together a follow up video and just kind of answer all these and we'll send out an email to all the participants who asked these questions, and so they can just watch that. That would be great. That would be great. If you have the time for that, I'd love that.

Mark Carroll (55:59):
Absolutely, look forward to it. Great question, everybody. Very cool.

Amir Frank (56:03):
Unfortunately, we are out of time, only a half an hour longer than what was scheduled. But really, really appreciate it, your attendance, these amazing questions. Looking forward to answering these questions for you. And thank you so much Mark for helping us out. It's awesome.

Mark Carroll (56:23):
It was great. Excellent talking to everybody, and I'll talk to you next time.

Amir Frank (56:27):
All right. See you next time, everybody. Thanks. Take care.
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