Helping You Connect the Dots to Succeed Faster
WGAN-TV: Now Playing
Next on WGAN-TV Live at 5
Free WGAN Map
Locations of Matterport Pro3 Camera Service Providers and see the number of Matterport Pro3s and/or BLK360s for each Matterport Pro.
View WGAN Map
Contact Info
Locations of Matterport Pro3 Camera Service Providers and see name, company, website, email and mobile phone for each Matterport Pro.
Join WGAN Sponsor
Get on the Map | A Service of We Get Around Network (not affiliated with Matterport)
One Order  |  One Quote  |  One Contact
Book Multiple GLOBAL Commercial Locations
  • ✔  As-Builts
  • ✔  Construction Progress
  • ✔  Facilities Management
Last 24 Hours: 713 Unique Visitors
9,032 WGAN Members in 148 Countries
Last 30 Days: 38,564 Page Views | 18,538 Unique Visitors | 37 New Members
We Get Around Network Forum
Quick Start | WGAN Forum
Engel VokersMatterport Capture Services ProgramMatterport Competes with MSPs

Long-Time MSP Client Cancels Scans to Book via Matterport Capture Services11608

WGAN Forum
Founder &
WGAN-TV Podcast
Host
Atlanta, Georgia
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Hi All,

Long-Time Matterport Service Provider client cancels scans to book via Matterport Capture Services program, reports long-time WGAN Member @immersivespaces in this WGAN Forum discussion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by @immersivespaces
Our local Engel & Völkers office has been a long time client of mine, pretty much since the day they opened their doors. I was just notified today that their agents are no longer permitted to book scanning services with me because they now have to book directly through Matterport. To add insult to injury, they had to cancel all of the scans they had previously scheduled with me through next week so they can reschedule them through Matterport.

I don't imagine I have much of a legal leg to stand on, but I am meeting with my attorney on Friday. There are some questions as to whether or not Matterport may have violated Florida's Sale of Business Opportunities Act. We'll see, but it appears that Matterport has basically screwed me after being an early adopter of their product and investing thousands of dollars and countless hours into their business since their inception. Really wish GeoCV would have worked out.


While Matterport emphasized that its recently announced Matterport Capture Services program was designed for enterprise clients, based on the experience reported by @immersivespaces (above), it looks like Matterport Service Providers will have challenges ahead with existing local clients.

Reading about the experience of @immersivespaces what are your thoughts?

Dan

WGAN Forum Related Discussions

Transcript: Matterport Capture Services Webinar | Thursday, 16 April 2020
Matterport Capture Services: Dan Smigrod Recommendations | Part 1
I Apologize. I Made a Big Mistake.
Matterport Capture Services: Dan Smigrod Recommendations | Part 2
✓ WGAN Forum discussions tagged: Matterport Competes with MSPs
Post 1 IP   flag post
WGAN
Premium
Member
Lahaina, Hawaii
Skeeter private msg quote post Address this user
Well it's started. That sucks! I do a better job than Matterport does with just about everything (fly throughs, mattertags). I offer more than they can like custom websites and aerial 360's. Check it out.

clickable text
Post 2 IP   flag post
HarlanHambright private msg quote post Address this user
well this puts a different spin on dan's earlier press release post don't it?
Post 3 IP   flag post
homefinders3d private msg quote post Address this user
You'll be left with boutique brokers until MP decides to either shut the service off to non-contract providers or prices them out. I believe there may be a misconception of what an "enterprise client" actually is. It probably includes large brokerages. If they enter into agreements with these three enterprise clients:

1. Realogy (Better Homes and Gardens® Real Estate, CENTURY 21®, Coldwell Banker®, Coldwell Banker Commercial®, Corcoran®, ERA®, and Sotheby's International Realty®.),
2. Home Services of America
3. Keller Williams

There will be very little left for rogue Matterport providers. Keller Williams is in an evolutionary push to centralize it's technology for agents/brokerages. In fact they consider themselves to be a technology company. I can see where MP might want to cultivate this.

This gives you an idea of where Keller Williams is headed:

"“The businessperson who wins in the Fourth Industrial Revolution is one who has access to the most amount of data, powered by strong AI.”
As the world’s largest company by agent count, Keller Williams has a competitive advantage: the data exhaust its people produce. This advantage has fueled Command – an open and highly customizable platform that allows agents to run their business in different ways.
At every turn, Command offers customization that CRMs cannot with its suite of interconnected technologies. Among many things, agents can:
Customize client touches, including checklists, drip campaigns and marketing.
Track their deals from lead to close.
Customize phases of their transactions based on their preferences and workflow.
Create tailor-made marketing pieces.
To enhance this already powerful technology and further drive value for agents, Keller Williams is collaborating with leading technology companies such as Google, DocuSign, and Nextdoor through the Keller Cloud Innovator Program (KCIP). At its core, KCIP brings the best ideas from the most innovative companies to disrupt and drive real estate forward. "

Personally I don't think MP will have a problem getting providers to join their program. The easiest way for them to keep their prices high enough to be profitable, will be to eliminate users of their services that offer lower prices. It's a bit of a conundrum really: If you continue to tell customers that MP is the Cadillac of virtual tours and nothing else is comparable. What do you tell them when you switch platforms lol?
Post 4 IP   flag post
WGAN Fan
Club Member
Buffalo, New York
GETMYVR private msg quote post Address this user
I'm looking at MetaReal and Transported, to add to my portfolio of services. I've just recently investigated them but hearing these kind of stories is a little heartbreaking, because it seems like Matterport can steal business from us but we can't steal business from them. I'm sure there's a big lawsuit in there somewhere.
Post 5 IP   flag post
WGAN
Premium
Member
Lahaina, Hawaii
Skeeter private msg quote post Address this user
I just wished Matterport did things better. We made the company what it is today. I've been doing this for over 5 years now and they did start out with good intention. I believe it's a CEO issue. $$$$$
Post 6 IP   flag post
HarlanHambright private msg quote post Address this user
Hell, I AM an enterprise MP user. At least that what my account says and I got the bank statements to prove it. I scan for Vacasa (at my rates) and their account shows thousands of models! Most of my clients are smaller firms that probably wouldn't be swayed by this malarky, but I've done stuff for our local Engel+Volkers agency before. I have 900+ models on their server with 515,000+ total visits according to the stats page. Matterport: do not mess with my business.
Post 7 IP   flag post
MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user
I have worked for Engel and Volkers in Berlin, Germany, too. They stopped everything due to "internal restructuring processes".

In the end I am not sure if MP Scan Services can find enough operators to scan a property like this for EUR 140. This is a random pick from the EuV Berlin website, but if you have a look at the images, you see how difficult it will be to shoot this only with a MP Pro2 camera and to produce these quality images (inside and outside). And I was not aware, that Matterport can deliver floorplans in German language without branding.

It will be interesting to see, how MP Scan Services will handle all these challenges with a Premium Realtor like Engel and Voelkers. Good luck, Matterport!
Post 8 IP   flag post
MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user
And good luck to Engel and Voelkers, too, because clients will not be happy to prepare for a second shooting, if the quality of the Matterport Scan Services shooting is not good enough.
Post 9 IP   flag post
immersivespaces private msg quote post Address this user
Here's something to consider after my short talk with my attorney today... Matterport says they are working with "enterprise clients," however, when we are talking about brokerages like Engel & Völkers, we are talking about independent franchise owners operating under the Engel & Völkers name. The franchise stipulates that they follow guidelines set forth by Engel & Völkers corporate, including authorized service providers. (This is the same for every major brokerage house.) Matterport has approached the franchisor and offered prices that are almost half of the local going rates in our area, effectively undercutting every MSP who doesn't want to be part of their program within 50 miles by 40-60%. Nearly every one of our brokerage clients are independent franchise owners of national brokerage chains that fall under the Matterport "enterprise client" classification. If Matterport makes agreements with any of them, they have no choice but to book with Matterport directly, even if the local brokerage owner or agents don't want to. The franchise contract supersedes any arrangements I may have with the local broker.

What we are looking at now are two things... First, the Business Opportunity Act angle at the State level, which I haven't fleshed out yet but will when I talk to the State Attorney next week. And next, a broader Federal price-fixing case with the Federal Trade Commission, which could ultimately lead to a larger class-action suit. There could be a case for saying the Matterport sought to collude with MSPs in their new program to price independent providers out of the market intentionally by agreeing with those MSPs to fix prices at a rate substantially below the average retail cost of a product or service provided in an area while charging independent MSPs higher fees (i.e., processing and hosting) making it impossible to compete. That suit would likely be brought against Matterport as well as any MSPs who agreed to participate in the program since they knew the rates were below market value. The hope is that we put pressure on Matterport to either at least offer fair market rates, reduce participation costs, or risk their new enterprise clients being listed as material witnesses in an embarrassing lawsuit with plenty of negative press coverage. Most brokerages would not want to have any part of this. Either way, this opens Matterport up to a Federal Lawsuit as well as a State lawsuit that would serve as a template for other State Attorneys should it get that far.

So all that to say, there are some considerations we looking at from a legal standpoint. We'll see what happens. If it does end up in a class-action lawsuit and we win anything, I'd be willing to invest my part in getting the GeoCV guys back in the game.
Post 10 IP   flag post
MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user
@immersivespaces wow, this is a perfect analysis of the legal situation! Thumbs up!!! 👍👍👍
Post 11 IP   flag post
Charlotte, NC
3dvrwalkthrough private msg quote post Address this user
Going through the last real estate bubble in 2008 taught me some great lessons.

Be prepared, things will get challenging again and EVERYONE IS EXPENDABLE INCLUDING MYSELF regardless of how talented/special I am or to most detriment how special/talented they think they are. Matterport is trying to keep their doors open.

When that part comes into play, jobs are cut and ways to save money are based on spreadsheet information, not feelings.

As Gordon Gekko said "Greed is Good". I have been listening business owners cry about Matterport for one reason or another for three years and I said this the first day I bought my PRO2, "I will never make it just scanning Matterport alone".

The last thing is if anyone thinks that moving a Matterport Camera on a tripod from spot to spot and pressing a button on your ipad or iphone is a skill set that someone else is not capable of doing, your sadly mistaken.

22 Million people have applied for unemployment last time I checked and will be happy to work at lower rates to feed their families. So the million dollar question is, are we going to cry some more or figure it out. When one door shuts, some others will open. Good luck.
Post 12 IP   flag post
Houston
briangreul private msg quote post Address this user
I hate to be the spreader of bad news.... but nothing described here is "enterprise" by the MSP's.

Do you have a good, viable business? Yes.
Is it large to you? Yes.
Are you capable of servicing a global business? Most likely not.


Global Enterprise is on the scale of Exxon Retail. There are 12,304 Exxon Mobil stores. If Exxon came to you (or any other MSP) and asked for a scan of every location Worldwide in the next 30 days you wouldn't be able to do it. Frankly, all of us working together might have trouble.

Take someone like Dollar Tree, they have 15,115 stores. 8 to 12K s/f stores. Assuming they are on a 7 year remodel/refresh (doubtful, but play along). that's 2160 stores a year that they might want to scan. This approaches doable for a large MSP, but then you get into data ownership/hosting/travel.

Matterport is simply going after the big accounts and telling service providers pretty clearly to buzz off. It makes sense from a business standpoint. It sucks, it's a bad deal, but there is still opportunity out there. On the bright side, larger clients tend to treat Net/30 as Net/90 or Net/120. They will pay you when they pay you because they can.

Matterport will expand the market. As the "big guys" do this, the little guys will take interest, creating opportunity that is more profitable to replace the big guys.

I promise that it will be good for us in the end. It will solve issues around MP's lock on data storage, processing, etc. Right now they are hooked on the InkJet model where the printer is reasonably cheap (possibly subsidized) and the ink is stupid expensive (hosting/processing). That has to change for their long term viability. Enterprise clients aren't going to pay the rates, and they aren't going to allow their data to sit in someone else's data center. When WalMart or some other large retailer dangles $15M of scan business at Matterport contingent on self-hosting / processing it will happen.... Keep In mind MP did $43.4M in revenue. Nice, but hardly a large company. Microsoft did $33.7Billion..... Oracle $11.1 Billion....


WalMart's average store is 180K s/f. Even at 5¢/sf that's $9K/scan. They have 4756 of them. That's $42M to scan all of them at 5¢/sf So $15M in scan business isn't out the of the question, it's just bigger than anything any of us are looking at.

If anything, the MP scan program makes them an acquisition target for someone like AWS or Microsoft or Google.
Post 13 IP   flag post
HarlanHambright private msg quote post Address this user
That’s very thoughtful I suppose but real estate still works on a local level. Our K+V franchise here is just a mom & pop setup in spite of the fancy logo on the wall. Matterport’s deal will save them 1 or $200 bucks per new listing which is maybe 3 or 4 per month. Peanuts to MP and my entire livelihood potentially. No, i do not see opportunity here. I’m already turning over every rock looking for new opportunity. And again, i am an “enterprise” customer. So MP is stealing business from an enterprise client and offering it to another at a discount. Maybe Campbell’s will sell me soup directly so i don’t have to go to the pesky grocery store.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Gerhard private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod can you arrange a Town-hall with Matterport CEO and maybe get Inman and some of the other tech websites attention to tune in. Will be a very interesting discussion or a way to expose them for what they are doing ? And seeing everyone has to stay home they have zero excuses why they cannot get onto the call. As they have promised a lot of things and is not delivering on that. I want also to get their investors also on this talk.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Gerhard private msg quote post Address this user
@immersivespaces I think 99.999999999% of everyone on the forum is behind you on this. Thank you for taking the time to look into this on our behalf. If this carries on it will give some justice back to GeoCV and also make the other new guys in this space be it new MSP's or New Virtual Tour solutions a fair chance to compete in this market. Dont try and be Google when you are already being perceived as MSN and your product is getting outdated more and more each month. I wish they would spend more time on development on the viewer on new functionality and supporting us who was with them from day one or almost day one.
Post 16 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder &
WGAN-TV Podcast
Host
Atlanta, Georgia
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @HarlanHambright
Hell, I AM an enterprise MP user. At least that what my account says and I got the bank statements to prove it. I scan for Vacasa (at my rates) and their account shows thousands of models! Most of my clients are smaller firms that probably wouldn't be swayed by this malarky, but I've done stuff for our local Engel+Volkers agency before. I have 900+ models on their server with 515,000+ total visits according to the stats page. Matterport: do not mess with my business.


Please keep us posted on any adverse impact on your business.

One would think - as a Matterport enterprise account - Matterport would want to keep you happy.

Dan
Post 17 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder &
WGAN-TV Podcast
Host
Atlanta, Georgia
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @immersivespaces
Here's something to consider after my short talk with my attorney today... Matterport says they are working with "enterprise clients," however, when we are talking about brokerages like Engel & Völkers, we are talking about independent franchise owners operating under the Engel & Völkers name. The franchise stipulates that they follow guidelines set forth by Engel & Völkers corporate, including authorized service providers. (This is the same for every major brokerage house.) Matterport has approached the franchisor and offered prices that are almost half of the local going rates in our area, effectively undercutting every MSP who doesn't want to be part of their program within 50 miles by 40-60%. Nearly every one of our brokerage clients are independent franchise owners of national brokerage chains that fall under the Matterport "enterprise client" classification. If Matterport makes agreements with any of them, they have no choice but to book with Matterport directly, even if the local brokerage owner or agents don't want to. The franchise contract supersedes any arrangements I may have with the local broker.

What we are looking at now are two things... First, the Business Opportunity Act angle at the State level, which I haven't fleshed out yet but will when I talk to the State Attorney next week. And next, a broader Federal price-fixing case with the Federal Trade Commission, which could ultimately lead to a larger class-action suit. There could be a case for saying the Matterport sought to collude with MSPs in their new program to price independent providers out of the market intentionally by agreeing with those MSPs to fix prices at a rate substantially below the average retail cost of a product or service provided in an area while charging independent MSPs higher fees (i.e., processing and hosting) making it impossible to compete. That suit would likely be brought against Matterport as well as any MSPs who agreed to participate in the program since they knew the rates were below market value. The hope is that we put pressure on Matterport to either at least offer fair market rates, reduce participation costs, or risk their new enterprise clients being listed as material witnesses in an embarrassing lawsuit with plenty of negative press coverage. Most brokerages would not want to have any part of this. Either way, this opens Matterport up to a Federal Lawsuit as well as a State lawsuit that would serve as a template for other State Attorneys should it get that far.

So all that to say, there are some considerations we looking at from a legal standpoint. We'll see what happens. If it does end up in a class-action lawsuit and we win anything, I'd be willing to invest my part in getting the GeoCV guys back in the game.


@immersivespaces

I can not even imagine ...

Thanks for keeping us posted ...

Dan
Post 18 IP   flag post
Houston
briangreul private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSmigrod
Quote:
Originally Posted by @HarlanHambright
Hell, I AM an enterprise MP user. At least that what my account says and I got the bank statements to prove it. I scan for Vacasa (at my rates) and their account shows thousands of models! Most of my clients are smaller firms that probably wouldn't be swayed by this malarky, but I've done stuff for our local Engel+Volkers agency before. I have 900+ models on their server with 515,000+ total visits according to the stats page. Matterport: do not mess with my business.


Please keep us posted on any adverse impact on your business.

One would think - as a Matterport enterprise account - Matterport would want to keep you happy.

Dan


@HarlanHambright / @DanSmigrod - You're a good client, but regrettably you are not an enterprise client despite whatever flattery they put on your invoices. Enterprise is not 900 scans or 500K visits. It is successful, it's just not global enterprise or S&P500 successful. Fortune 50/100 is Enterprise. Multiply what you are doing by a factor of 1,000 and that's enterprise. You are solidly mid-market and MP should care about your business. I'm not trying to bash you, btw, I'm on your side. They shouldn't be swiping customers. But at the end of the day it's $'s booked that matter.

Enterprise clients are usually big enough to hurt you if they drop you. They represent a significant % of your revenue. Matterport does $43M/yr in revenue. They have 5,000 customers give or take. That's $716/customer per month. Not much in the scheme of things. It means they probably have alot of small customers.

If you want to know what happens next, look back at what Microsoft did to their VAR's. At some magical point they decided the target was too ripe to let someone else manage and they weren't happy with how the business was being conducted. They decided they could get more revenue and valuable field feedback by going direct. So they did. It lets them sell at whatever price point it takes to bring in those customers.

They are going to try and ink big deals with a whatever it takes attitude. Part of this is to scale out the technology, and part of it is to acquire "hood ornament" customers who will attract their next round of funding. Software companies do this all the time. That's why you see them advertise that they have XYZ and ABC as customers. The golden rule in software is that the first copy costs $$$ to make. Everything else is support and profit after that. So if you have a product that doesn't use much support the rest is profit. You can either cut costs or scale out revenue to make the company more profitable. They are doing both.... a hard cut to labor, and going after large customers who will scale out revenue on the existing code and resources.

What they are doing is not nice, but it makes good business sense. I think I read somewhere they have $143M in funding.... against $43M in sales/yr. Something has to change. They have to become profitable or they will run out of money/funding and cease to exist. They aren't Uber where people will keep lighting money on fire and throwing it at them while they shape shift into some other great service (freight, eats, rides, helirides, submarines, etc etc etc).
Post 19 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder &
WGAN-TV Podcast
Host
Atlanta, Georgia
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @briangreul
I hate to be the spreader of bad news.... but nothing described here is "enterprise" by the MSP's.

Do you have a good, viable business? Yes.
Is it large to you? Yes.
Are you capable of servicing a global business? Most likely not.


Global Enterprise is on the scale of Exxon Retail. There are 12,304 Exxon Mobil stores. If Exxon came to you (or any other MSP) and asked for a scan of every location Worldwide in the next 30 days you wouldn't be able to do it. Frankly, all of us working together might have trouble.

Take someone like Dollar Tree, they have 15,115 stores. 8 to 12K s/f stores. Assuming they are on a 7 year remodel/refresh (doubtful, but play along). that's 2160 stores a year that they might want to scan. This approaches doable for a large MSP, but then you get into data ownership/hosting/travel.

Matterport is simply going after the big accounts and telling service providers pretty clearly to buzz off. It makes sense from a business standpoint. It sucks, it's a bad deal, but there is still opportunity out there. On the bright side, larger clients tend to treat Net/30 as Net/90 or Net/120. They will pay you when they pay you because they can.

Matterport will expand the market. As the "big guys" do this, the little guys will take interest, creating opportunity that is more profitable to replace the big guys.

I promise that it will be good for us in the end. It will solve issues around MP's lock on data storage, processing, etc. Right now they are hooked on the InkJet model where the printer is reasonably cheap (possibly subsidized) and the ink is stupid expensive (hosting/processing). That has to change for their long term viability. Enterprise clients aren't going to pay the rates, and they aren't going to allow their data to sit in someone else's data center. When WalMart or some other large retailer dangles $15M of scan business at Matterport contingent on self-hosting / processing it will happen.... Keep In mind MP did $43.4M in revenue. Nice, but hardly a large company. Microsoft did $33.7Billion..... Oracle $11.1 Billion....


WalMart's average store is 180K s/f. Even at 5¢/sf that's $9K/scan. They have 4756 of them. That's $42M to scan all of them at 5¢/sf So $15M in scan business isn't out the of the question, it's just bigger than anything any of us are looking at.

If anything, the MP scan program makes them an acquisition target for someone like AWS or Microsoft or Google.


@briangreul

While I agree with you - and Matterport - "large enterprises need to scan hundreds / thousands of locations across wide geographies [and] want negotiated services, price terms and centralized billing" [Source: Matterport Capture Services Webinasr], respectfully I disagree with Matterport's strategy to accomplish this at the expense of Matterport Service Providers.

I write at length on this topic today (22 April 2020) here:

Matterport Capture Services: Dan Smigrod Recommendations | Part 3

I welcome your thoughts about the strategy that I recommend to solving this problem/opportunity.

Dan
Post 20 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder &
WGAN-TV Podcast
Host
Atlanta, Georgia
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @HarlanHambright
So MP is stealing business from an enterprise client and offering it to another at a discount.


Clearly this is exactly what is happening.

What makes this egregious is that Matterport sold you the camera and Cloud hosting and now is targeting your clients (albeit at a national level: which still impacts you - all of us).

Please keep us posted.

Stay healthy,

Dan
Post 21 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder &
WGAN-TV Podcast
Host
Atlanta, Georgia
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @Gerhard
@DanSmigrod can you arrange a Town-hall with Matterport CEO and maybe get Inman and some of the other tech websites attention to tune in. Will be a very interesting discussion or a way to expose them for what they are doing ? And seeing everyone has to stay home they have zero excuses why they cannot get onto the call. As they have promised a lot of things and is not delivering on that. I want also to get their investors also on this talk.


You would make a great booking agent. We need to channel some of that energy!

Dan
Post 22 IP   flag post
Houston
briangreul private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod I am on board with everyone else.... it was a [redacted] move on the part of MP.

Attacking them legally will be expensive and likely unproductive. The MSP program is completely at their discretion. The MSS is contingent on "certification" which looks pretty weak currently, but they can certify or not anyone they please. Other software companies have for years determined who their resellers are. IBM was one of the most aggressive about partner vetting.

MP is staking out their territory and the only options are fish somewhere else or leave the sandbox entirely. Both suck, but it's a closed ecosystem. The product still has value in other markets.... marketing (streetview), insurance, construction. The real estate market is just going to get smaller for a while until the dust shakes out with MP trying to centralize the service. I'd expect to see them try to repeat this in the insurance space as well. Very easy to sell to the big carriers at the enterprise level, sell some cameras to their staff, and farm out everything else to service partners. The only catch there is that if you aren't licensed you can't comment on what you see or what it means. Unless of course you want to pay for it out of your pocket.
Post 23 IP   flag post
WGAN Forum
Founder &
WGAN-TV Podcast
Host
Atlanta, Georgia
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by @briangreul
I think I read somewhere they have $143M in funding.... against $43M in sales/yr.


Matterport has raised $114 million, according to Crunchbase (22 April 2020), including a Series D of $48 million reported on 5 March 2019.

Matterport's annual revenue is estimated at $43.4 million, according to GROWJO (22 April 2020).

Quote:
Originally Posted by @briangreul
Matterport does $43M/yr in revenue. They have 5,000 customers give or take.


While Matterport has 5,000 MSPs globally, according to its Matterport Capture Services webinar (16 April 2020), at the SPAR3D conference (23 May 2019), a Matterport employee displayed a slide showing 20,000 Matterport cameras sold.

So, MSPs is likely a sub-set of their total customers (includes non-MSPs). Which would make revenue per customer be a far smaller number.

Dan
Post 24 IP   flag post
MatterTag
Export-Import
Service
Lower Hutt, New Zealand
HomePlanNZ private msg quote post Address this user
I think we are all watching this unfold with keen interest.

We can't tell MP what to do or how to act. If MSPs resist MSS, there's a bunch of others saying "I've almost done 20 scans - I'm in!" (shudder) who will take the MSP's place. But if MSPs do it, they risk de-valuing their own service's value proposition.

Change sucks, especially change caused by others. Business models assume A and then B happens. If you planned on B maybe happening, C comes along and blindsides you.

I think I posted earlier that the rub with MSS will come when they sign up someone who is already a customer of an MSP - exactly the situation above. And I think there are some very valid legal arguments in there about MP having a MSP program encouraging you to participate (that they are clearly backing away from), then directly competing with you once you do.

There's also a valid "for MSS" argument that none of us can offer services at the scale of some of the big fish who want one deal, with one company, nationwide or worldwide. It's happening everywhere at the moment - 3D tours are the new black, so corporations are trying to get the best deal they can. It happens everyday, in every field - globalization leads to lost opportunity for the local guy who has been dealing with the local branch for years. Just look at how IT support has changed in the last 20 years.

I'm just not sure how you resolve it. I hope we agree that if MP can swing a big customer onto its platform who would not have otherwise come onboard, and we get a chance to do work for them albeit at a lower cost - that's a good thing. I hope we agree that if MP start signing up local, small customers under MSS, that's a problem. How do you sort the rub in the middle, like the above? I don't know.

It really comes back to the relationship you have with the customer. My reading of the MSS T&Cs I sighted was if you have a relationship already, there's nothing stopping you continuing that relationship alongside MSS. But if the customer does not perceive your higher-cost service adding more value over MSS, then they will take the latter. Should this upset you? Hmm.
Post 25 IP   flag post
MatterTag
Export-Import
Service
Lower Hutt, New Zealand
HomePlanNZ private msg quote post Address this user
PS this made me chuckle - how many MSPs don't mind being referred to now as Matterport's photographers?

Post 26 IP   flag post
Gerhard private msg quote post Address this user
@DanSmigrod Perfect I well gladly assist you. Will work for toilet paper or beers. 😂
Post 27 IP   flag post
Gerhard private msg quote post Address this user
@HomePlanNZ The BIGGEST joke for me is the real estate guys. We have been marketing to them for over 5 years now and you could not give away the tours to them for free. Or they just dont want to or cant spend the money, no we can sell the value that is not the problem here. They are so backwards and old school. We have asked Matterport a billion times to get the awareness in the consumers hands and create a demand for the services and tours. It took a Biblical epidemic to wake up this industry, 4 years too late. I talk to some agents and its like all of the sudden its something new they have never seen. ˜Just shows you how outdated the forward thinking big real estate companies are.

I would have spent the investors money on effective marketing and R&D building the best solution that there is. Not trying to cut the throats of the people who built your business. But I think there is a lot of truth that is going to come out in the next 2 - 3 weeks. And If RJ Ewing does not come on a town hall with us all it will just prove what is really going on.

I am working now the past month to close a fairly big "International" Real Estate company that contacted me as their agents have seen my posts and marketing I am doing. I have already quoted them, and just realized I am still about 20% cheaper than the new MSS program. Yes it will be volume deals, and getting paid upfront as part of the T&C. Also giving them the complete Matterport tour with all Bells and Whistles included, delivery in 6 hours or the tour is free. I am even looking at some more ad-ons for them with some new products that have been launched and we are busy testing it. Again not even trying over charge them for that but have a steady stream of income from them, and building a relationship.

As a very wise friend of mine that is also on this forum have told me so many times, that he tells his clients ; "I am not your service provider or content provider. I am your business partner. If you succeed I succeed and vice versa." You are not selling a service to them but giving value. You are not selling them Matterport you are selling yourself and your company. People buy from you they don't care what you are selling may it be Matterport or 3DVista , once they trust you and realize you have their best interest at heart and you are not there to screw them over or use and abuse them. But the wheel is round and it's turning fast as this point in time. And the truth does not care about your feelings.

But another thing that is happening and think will be more relevant in the next 2 - 3 years is that agents will be obsolete. As blockchain and AI is going to change this industry forever. It will empower homeowners to sell and market directly at almost a zero cost to them. If I was the MSP is to get to the home ones directly and marketing to them. Once they hav the tours it is their property and they can decide with who the want to share it with. Not happy with agent #1 okey give out to another agent, so the sellers are not hostages of the real estate companies. But this is just an opinion and carries no weight at all as everyone has an opinion like everyone has a nose.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Houston
briangreul private msg quote post Address this user
@Gerhard sounds like you have some good stuff going on.... congrats.

When I look at the MP space I'm reminded of a political phrase. "If you aren't at the table, you are on the menu." Matterport is rightly concerned with profitability and revenue, at any cost. To the point @DanSmigrod made, if they have sold 20K cameras and are only realizing sales of $43M which invariably includes hardware, then sales per customer are pretty dismal. Let's ignore the hardware sales and assume that all cameras are active at equal rates. Both of these would be incorrect assumptions, but it makes the analysis easier. The net revenue per camera is $2150/yr or $179.16/mo. That suggests a revenue pyramid with a large number of small customers.

The only way out of that is enterprise customers. MSP was launced 4.5 years ago and has at least 1/4 of the cameras made in it. (each MSP has at least one camera and there are 5K MSPs). If I had access to the real numbers my guess is that only a couple of MSPs are delivering enterprise capacity. The rest are small players, myself included.

Matterport is having exploratory conversations with facility management companies (JLL, CBRE, etc) and Enterprise clients (let's keep picking on WalMart here for now). MP sees a big opportunity to make quantum changes to the $/Customer or $/camera metrics.

The other rub is that MP is going to feel competition from the high end tools like Leica as well as the photogrammetry solutions like Pix4D and Occiptal-etc (I say etc as they have different business names for different segments). They are caught in the middle. If they can't expand their market they will either be squashed or acquired. Likely acquired and I'd expect it to come from someone like Verisk (makers of Xactimate), CoreLogic (MLS and Symbility), Autodesk, or someone wild like Apple or Google who would see MP as pocket change.
Post 29 IP   flag post
WGAN Fan
Club Member
Buffalo, New York
GETMYVR private msg quote post Address this user
my last chime in on this Matterport thing. After watching Ben Claremont's youtube video covering 15 other virtual tour software options, and then some.... I'm not going to let Matterport make or break me. My success is not on them, with all the options out there, we can actually offer a BETTER experience than Matterport, for less cost, and make more money. Thanks for opening my eyes ALL OF YOU!
Post 30 IP   flag post
101436 30 30
This topic is archived. Start new topic?