WGAN-TV Live at 5: Matterport Customer Journey: Jeff Nitschke w/ CaptureNW10501
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|WGAN-TV Live at 5: Matterport Customer Journey: Jeff Nitschke with CaptureNW
If you are a professional photographer thinking about getting started with Matterport, you might find it helpful to hear the journey of a successful Matterport Service Provider.
My guest on WGAN-TV Live at 5 (5 pm ET | GMT -4) this Thursday (21 November 2019) is Eastern Washington & North Idaho-based Matterport Service Prover CaptureNW Founder Jeff Nitschke (@lilnitsch).
✓ WGAN-TV Live at 5: Matterport Customer Journey: Jeff Nitschke with CaptureNW
I will ask Jeff about his Matterport Service Provider business today and his journey to get there.
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|WGAN-TV - A Matterport Customer Journey with Jeff Nitschke with CaptureNW serving North Idaho and Eastern Washington State.
If you are thinking about getting started with Matterport – or still early in your Matterport Service Provider business journey, there is a ton of great insight in this (above) WGAN-TV show with Jeff Nitschke with CaptureNW serving North Idaho and Eastern Washington State.
✓ A 'Snapshot' of CaptureNW today
✓ Services Offered
✓ Unique Pricing Strategy
✓ Matterport Pro2 3D Camera versus RICOH Theta Z1
✓ How long to shoot a Matterport 3D Tour versus a Zillow 3D Home tour
✓ How to get inside a brokerage
✓ Matterport 3D Showcase app
✓ Pitching Real Estate Agents
✓ Camera 'ready' real estate listings
✓ Shooting a $20 million listing
✓ Benefits of Matterport 3D Tour to homebuilders
✓ Power of Blue Booties
✓ Matterport 3D Tour shot with iPhone (beta)
@lilnitsch ... much thanks for being my guest - and sharing your Matterport journey - on WGAN-TV Live at 5 yesterday (Thursday, 21 November 2019). And, thank you for being a WGAN Forum Member.
WGAN-TV Live at 5 Transcript | Jeff Nitschke with CaptureNW serving North Idaho and Eastern Washington State
- Hi all. I'm Dan Smigrod, founder of the We Get Around Network Forum. Today is Thursday, November 21, 2019, and you're watching WGAN-TV Live at 5. Got an awesome show for you today, a Matterport Service Provider customer journey. Our guest today, Jeff Nitschke. Hey, Jeff, good to see you.
- Hey, good afternoon, how's it going?
- Awesome, thanks for being on the show today.
- Not a problem.
- Nitschke, sounds a little bit familiar. Green Bay football.
- Yep, Ray Nitschke, NFL Football Hall of Famer. He was a linebacker back in the '60s and '70s.
- Any relationship?
- Yep, second cousin.
- Second cousin, awesome. Looking forward to getting tickets from you at some point.
- (chuckles) Good luck ;-)
- Good luck, okay ;-) Not gonna happen. So, a Matterport customer journey. I'm interested in doing this show for those that are just thinking about getting Matterport, or they just got Matterport and they're really just beginning their journey. You've begun your journey. How long has it been for you since you got your Matterport camera?
- Since I've actually first played with a Matterport camera it's probably been about 2 1/2 years. Since I've actually been in business, it's probably about a year.
- Okay. We'll go back 2 1/2 years, but where I'd like to begin is today. Tell me about your Matterport Service Provider business today, Jeff.
- Well, I'm kind of a unique person to where I'm pretty much only working with clients that I'm in contract with. I'm in contract with a large brokerage that consists of three different brokerages: Sotheby's, Century 21, and Coldwell Banker. And then I'm also in contract with a local builder/developer.
- Cool. What does that mean that you're a... You're in contract with? It sounds like you have negotiated some deal with each of these clients.
- Yep. With my real estate partnership, basically they carry it on the agent's AR so the agent doesn't have to pay for anything out of pocket upfront, and then I get paid immediately. But they've bought a certain block of my time to where I guarantee them a certain rate and certain rate card, and have a certain amount of tours per year. And I did it with my contractor.
- This might help explain why there's no rate card on your website, capturenw.com. C-A-P-T-U-R-E-N-W, North West, Capture North West. No rate card. You've figured out how to do some kind of special pricing. Do you actually have a rate card for those clients so they kind of... They get X number of dollars towards these rates.
- Yep. With my real estate client they have actually no minimum in which they can spend with me, which is nice. And then I do it in a couple tiered platforms to where they're never worried about what the cost is going to be. I go, like, a zero to 5,000, a 5,001 to 7,500 square feet, and 7,501 square feet to 10,000 square feet. And then after 10,000 square feet, call for a quote. It's after 10,000 square feet I might have to do some tricky stuff with Matterport.
- Without asking your pricing, I'm still trying to understand a little bit because it's a very innovative pricing, and I don't think in my 5 1/2 years that I've run into someone that had pricing like this. Can you just help me understand a little bit more in terms of what a deal might look like without talking about specific dollars?
- I can give specific dollars to a certain extent. On my entry level, on the $250; or up to 5,000 square feet, is $250 for Matterport, which is a flat fee. So anything up to 5,000 square feet costs $250 bucks. No setup fee, no hosting. That's all included with this service. To add photos is a $100 bill. To add video would take that up to $750. So a $750 for photo, video, and Matterport. All my photo packages also include aerial. I just throw that in, as a Part 107 pilot.
- Cool. Do you have a minimum commitment from the three clients, the one brokerage with three sub-brokerages?
- Yeah, basically, when we first started off it was 150 tours at $250, which was the minimum in order for me to be interested in your business. And that's over the course of a year.
- If you were to take on a new client they essentially need to give you a commitment for X number of tours or X number of dollars.
- Yeah, at said minimum.
- Yeah, that's awesome. Is that hard to do?
- This one wasn't particularly hard for me to do because I was working for their corporate office at the time. But my builder, once again, it was a previous relationship. He was unhappy with what his agents were doing because they got complacent, because the market was hot so they weren't doing as much marketing as they should have been. So once again I came in. It's like, well, I could pick up this end of the business for you and help you and your agents, and educate your agents on why they should be doing a better job for you.
- And I'll take on your business provided that you give me a minimum commitment per year, which is going to be either X number of dollars or X number of packages.
- Wow, that's awesome. Are you as busy as you'd like to be?
- This summer I was busier than I probably should have been. It's kind of nice that I'm slowing down a little bit right now just due to the natural turn of seasons. But now I'm starting to look a little bit at commercial just because commercial is an interesting aspect. I haven't really been doing much of anything in the commercial area.
- The builders have been residential.
- When you say commercial, is that, like, for a restaurant?
- Yeah, restaurant, businesses. I recently just had a nationwide builder call me up to do a local gas station, that found me off of Google Street View.
- Cool. That's another category you want to look at. Have you given thought about how you'd even price that? When you're doing residential you got some hosting, but you know that they're going to... You don't need to host them past three months, six months, a year.
- Well, the beautiful thing about my two contract ones is they each have their own account, and I actually shoot to their account so they can keep it as long as they want to.
- Cool. Do you have an account as well?
- Yep, I have my own account that I shoot my other business, or the trickle through that I get from time to time.
- Okay, cool. Well, I do see that you have a lot of gear behind you. How about taking me through everything that you've got?
- Just a little bit. I have four Matterport camera. I have two Pro1's and two Pro2's. I started off with the Pro1. I also have all of the supported little 360 cameras. This one's the Insta360 One X. The [RICOH] THETA V. And my darling, which is the [RICOH Theta] Z1. And the Z1 goes with me everywhere.
- Without starting to talk about... Well, you still have some other Matterport-related gear there, I believe. I want to ask you questions about those one-click cameras, but is there anything else Matterport specific?
- That's the four Matterport cameras I have, other than...
- Let's stick with the Matterport. We're talking to you today. You have four cameras. Do you have three other people that are shooting?
- No, I take two cameras with me on every job. I like to have 'hair' to spare because most of my listings are no closer than probably an hour and a half, and hour to an hour and a half to get there. And if I have an equipment failure I can't run home really quick.
- So you have a pretty big geography. I think Capture North West is...
- Yeah, I'm pretty much all of the north part of the State of Idaho all the way into Central Washington.
- So you've got a pretty big swathe there. North Idaho and Eastern Washington state.
- Yep. I've recently started tip-toeing at far as Pasco, the Tri-Cities, which is Central Washington. I like to have redundancy.
- And you're actually in...
- Coeur d'Alene.
- Coeur d'Alene.
- Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
- Which is near...
- Spokane, Washington.
- Spokane, Washington, okay, cool. This is great. Gee, I would imagine that somebody who was starting out would say, "Oh, well, "it's a lot of money just to buy one camera," but you've got four. Are you using your Pro1's at all?
- Pro1 is typically what I have as a backup camera. So that way I can send... Because I do have my brother that I can send out on jobs from time to time. I send one Pro2 and one Pro1 with him, and then I have one Pro2 and one Pro1 with me.
- Ah, so you can keep them busy. So that's cool. And then... I know you post... One of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show today is because you're quite prolific posting in the We Get Around Network Forum [WGANForum.com] regarding your 360 one-click cameras. We're so thankful for that because you're constantly doing things like, this is the same location with a Matterport Pro1, a Matterport Pro2, an Insta360 ONE X, a RICOH Theta V, a RICOH Theta Z1. Super thankful for that, doing your comparisons. Tell me a little bit about why... I mean, you had these Matterport cameras. Why did you end up getting these 360 one-click cameras?
- I was early involved in [Matterport] beta testing, so that was reason number one. I was curious to see what could be done because I'd like to see the quickening of the process. Unfortunately, even with the Z1, I wouldn't use it for most of my clients just because it's not quite there for my clients because my clients are a little on the upper end. If I was working on more starter homes I might use the Z1. I probably would not use the Insta360 or the THETA V just due to quality.
- On the RICOH THETA Z1, the $1,000 camera, were you thinking that that might speed up your workflow? Was that the thinking about getting the camera?
- That was the initial and then I had heard from a birdie that the Zillow tours were coming down the board and they were supporting the RICOH cameras, so I knew that that was a good B use for it. And that has provided to be a very good use for it as well.
- Are you using RICOH Theta Z1 in conjunction with your Matterport Pro2 3D Camera at all? And if so, how?
- Yeah. I'm primarily shooting both the Zillow and Matterport tours at the same time while I'm on site. And then from time to time I'll use the Z1 to fill in, either in direct sunlight or exterior in order to fill in. That way, I can get the front and the back yard without having to come back at twilight.
- I'm confused. Go a little slower for me and help me understand that.
- What I'll do is I'll scan the entire inside of the home with the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera. And then if I want to go outside I'll grab my Z1, and I'll swap cameras inside the [Matterport] Capture app and then capture outside, so that way I can get both the front yard or the back yard, or down to a dock, or an exterior building.
- Ah, so, I think what I'm hearing is there's likely sunlight, and you simply can't use the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera for a 3D View [Scan]. But you could use it for a 360... Forgive me, I got that backwards. You can't use it for a 3D Scan, but you could use it... I'll start over on that. On the Matterport 2 3D Camera you can't scan outside with sunlight, but you could shoot 360 Views. So why aren't you using your Matterport Pro2 3D Camera set to 360 View outdoors?
- I have done that, and I do do that from time to time. Like, if it's raining outside and I'm not going to scan all the way down to a part, I'll go out and I'll just grab a quick 360 and just link that. You can do the 360 and then convert it to 3D mesh, although it's very time consuming. And the beautiful thing about these little point-and-shoots, if you will, is that it takes a 360 and then it converts it to 3D right in camera, or right in the Capture app, so you're not having to do that extra process or that extra step.
- Ah, so your workflow is dramatically faster using the RICOH Theta Z1 for all your outdoor shots.
- Are you using it inside at well, for any reason?
- On very rare occasion, like if you have a direct sunlight through a room that's giving you the black hole, in a front room or living room or something, I may use it.
- And you're using it there to take a 360 converted to 3D and then have it fill in that black hole.
- But the beautiful thing about the one-clicks is that you don't have to do that conversion. It's actually doing that in the app.
- So it solves that completely.
- Okay, that's cool. I'm wondering if, in some of those homes, you might have a super high vaulted ceiling and are using the RICOH Theta Z1 on a long pole in order to capture the...
- I haven't really done any of that really high... I have had some high ceiling homes, but I haven't really had much of an issue with that.
- Okay. You mentioned Zillow 3D Home. Note to Matterport, please talk to the Zillow people so we can shoot once.
- I would love that.
- Hello, Zillow. Please talk to Matterport nice. We'd super like to just be able to shoot once, publish twice. Have I said that with ...? Have I evoked what you're thinking?
- I would love that so much but unfortunately it just doesn't work like that. And I've talked to some people at Zillow, and they just don't seem to have that appetite at this point in time. But once again, you can't ignore Zillow because that's where the consumer is.
- How long do you usually take? It's such a crazy number, but if you had to... I mean, in your mind do you keep track of metrics, so if you're shooting a 3,500 square foot home you know how long it takes to do with the Matterport Pro?
- With Matterport, I like to approximate about 45 minutes per 1,000 square feet.
- Okay, good. And then for your Zillow 3D tour?
- If I was doing the same home with a Zillow 3D tour I would probably be in and out of that house in probably 45 minutes, tops.
- You've included the in and out in the setup. You didn't include that in Matterport. Can you give me an apples to apples?
- The Zillow 3D tour is just so quick just because you're not having to actually go to each scan position. Basically, you're kind of point-and-shoot. Here's one room. You may do either side of a doorway just for better navigation, but you're not having to fill in and connect because it's not line of sight like Matterport.
- Maybe I missed on the timing. A 3,500 square foot house with Matterport would be three times 45 minutes.
- Right, versus just in and out in 45 minutes.
- So it's substantially... In that case it's...
- A third of the time.
- Yeah, thank you.
- On a 3,000 square foot home, there-abouts.
- I still would imagine you wish you could just publish from Matterport directly to Zillow and not have that extra 45-minute shoot, and perhaps still get paid the same amount of money for whatever it is that you're charging your clients for Zillow.
- Zillow is just something that I'm doing as a $100 add-on if I'm there. Which, once again, I got several people that are like, they'll call me up for just Matterport and Zillow.
- Is there anyone that asks you just to shoot Zillow?
- I haven't had anybody ask me for just Zillow at this point in time.
- Just photos?
- Just photos I get from time to time. My problem is that I have a minimum of $250 to show up, so that's more than any photographers charging.
- That's probably a good thing because you can only... You know, if you're going to shoot, in your case I don't know. How many houses? What's the most you've ever done in one day?
- The most I've done... Well, outside of an apartment complex for a builder developer, or homes that are in the same neighborhood, I've done four in a day.
- Four, so that was a hussle.
- That was a hussle, yeah.
- That was a lot to do.
- And geography came into play there as well.
- So, let's say you had a choice of doing a minimum of $250 a shoot. That's at least $1,000, nevermind whatever else you did for them. Versus if you just did photos. Well, I guess that would still come out to a minimum of $1,000. And presumably you made a lot more on those four houses because you were probably offering a lot of other services.
- And when you do photos, are you using the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera or are you using a DSLR?
- I am not using the Matterport photos at all unless there's something that they needed in a pinch or something that they wanted pulled out of the Matterport tour specifically. I always typically shoot with a DSLR.
- Are you a Nikon or Canon person?
- I have Panasonic, I have Canon, I have Nikon somewhere. Sony is what I've been shooting on recently.
- You like the mirrorless?
- Yep. I don't like the menu system of the Sony. I'm still learning the menu system of the Sony, but I really do like its low light performance.
- Okay, cool. On your DSLR, are you doing... Are you doing post-production on them in-house or do you outsource that?
- A little of both, depending on the property. There's a couple properties that would make it worthwhile to send out to Boxbownie or one of those types of services to really jazz up the photos, or to add some of that twilight or sky replacement. I can do some minimal sky replacement but that becomes time intensive, depending on the property.
- Are you sending pictures typically straight out of the camera or do you have some post-production that you do, some color enhancement, et cetera?
- For what I'm sending to the agent I always do post-production of some sort, whether I'm sending that off to a third-party to do or I'm doing it myself.
- You mentioned that you have your Part 107 FAA license. Cool. Tell me about your drone photography.
- Once again, I include drone photography in my regular photo package. Did I lose you?
- I'm here.
- Just a little bit of stutter in the video. I include drone photo and video in my photo package. I don't separate it out as this is just drone.
- Okay. Is that photo and video, both photos and video from your aerial?
- Okay. So you have some package, and that includes some light editing of the video, adding music.
- Set the audio track.
- Okay, cool. Do you have a particular drone that you're using now?
- The one that I fly the most is the Mavic 2 Pro. I did just get this little guy.
- Wow, look at that! This just came out ;-)
- This guy is super fun to fly, and I look forward to taking it out in the field. This isn't going to be my A camera, but this is a really good B camera, or B drone. It flies really nice. It takes pretty decent images. Its handicap is that 2.7k, so you're not getting the full resolution video. But battery life on it, I'm getting probably 25 minutes out of that.
- That's amazing, isn't it?
- Uh huh.
- As a backup if something happened to your primary drone you still have a second camera.
- To where the day is not lost. I always like to have redundancy.
- Okay. Gosh, I... What else do I see behind you? What's on your tripod? How are you connecting your Matterport Camera to your tripod there?
- This is just that Manfrotto 290 that everybody seems to use because it's a workhorse, it's a beast. I just have that on a flat plate because I find that nine times out of 10 you're level with that camera anyway if you have your legs set right.
- Are you doing a quick release or are you just screwing it right onto the tripod?
- It's a quick release, just flat plate.
- Flat plate, okay. And then how do you keep your camera... How do you keep the camera level?
- The legs... Once again, if your legs are straight, nine times out of 10 you're level unless you're on tilted ground, and then I tweak the leg just a little bit. I haven't really had any issues with the camera being off kilter or off center.
- Okay, cool. And then I see a second tripod.
- Yep, this one's my Benro. I only typically use this one if I'm doing video video, or if I'm throwing a slider on it to do slider video with the camera.
- Okay. Is there any other gear that's there?
- This is my Sony that I have on here. This is my iFootage monopod and this is what I typically use with my... Well, I'll use it with my Sony because it's small body, but I like using this for my 360 cameras as the base because it's a very sturdy monopod. And then it has a ball foot to where you can level it to get straight lines.
- Tell me again, I haven't seen that one. What is that?
- This one's the iFootage Cobra 2.
- iFootage Cobra 2.
- Yeah. And they come in both aluminum and carbon fiber. I'm just rocking the aluminum ones. They have a really nice quick release system.
- It gives you a nice small... Are you patching your nadir?
- Don't have to with Matterport or with Zillow 3D Tours. It does a pretty good job with that.
- You put a Matterport Camera on that? Oh, you're talking about your 360 cameras. I'm just getting a little concerned there for a second. Okay, my bad.
- Just because you can shoot Matterport with these guys now too.
- Got it. Okay, so...
- The really nice thing about these is the quick release. It makes getting or swapping cameras out really easy with it.
- Oh, that's cool. Could you show me the ball joint on that?
- Yeah. At the very bottom there's a little twist knob and that allows you to adjust the foot, so if you're on uneven ground you can get that still straight.
- Does it come with a bubble?
- There's not a bubble level on there, but I found with most 360s, as long as you have it relatively, just eyeball level, that most of the 360 cameras will level in-camera. And then it has adjustable feet to where you can adjust that to any level to get a little higher or little lower. Or completely fold it up and use it as just a traditional monopod without the feet.
- Okay, cool. We've talked somewhat about your business today. Are there other services? I got Matterport, photo, video, aerial photo and video. Are you offering floor plans?
- I do offer floor plans, and I just mark them up 100%. They're $15 from Matterport. I just bill them as $30 bucks.
- Any other add-ons?
- What's that?
- Any other add-ons?
- For the most part, that's it. From time to time I've used that same vendor that Ross was talking about yesterday, which is CEVA with [Homes3ds.com] Because he does offer some things like the 3D floor plans, which are kind of nice from time to time. Just to change it up a little bit from time to time, depending on the client.
- Cool, all right. You're somewhat a busy prolific photographer, a Matterport Service Provider. Maybe a little bit overstretched during the busy season of the summer, going into the winter maybe not so much, or going into the holidays. So looking for some other verticals that may be tackled.
- Definitely. I don't hear you talking about maybe going after other real estate agents, though.
- With the agreement that I have I don't have anything saying that I can't go after other real estate agents, but I also don't like to jump out of bed with the customer that I'm in bed with by chasing other business.
- You have a sweet deal with a large client that keeps you really busy.
- Got it. That makes sense. At the top of the show you mentioned, I think, that you got started as a Matterport business maybe a year ago, maybe played with the Matterport camera 2 1/2 years ago. Take me back way before Matterport. What was your... What was your career before you were a photographer?
- Well, my brother and I owned a real estate marketing company that we specialized in new construction. We were doing 360 tours back before Google was a business, back when you actually had to stitch all the photos together. And we had done that, and we landed a builder that was building about 300 homes a year. Now, we didn't always do those 360 tours on everything because they were very time intensive. But we shot everything with traditional cameras. Some of them may have even been film back in the day, but most of them would have been digital. But yeah, we started off in new construction.
- So it sounds like you were a digital agency creating content.
- Yeah. We handled everything from the website, to cleaning up the floor plans, going to developer meetings to get it through plan approval, or plat approval, to get into communities.
- And how long were you doing that?
- That would have probably been started in the late '90s, early 2000s.
- So for a while. That's going back maybe 20-plus years. And so you had, at that time, expertise in creating digital assets, photography, the floor plans you mentioned. You also had business development skills, I would imagine. You and your brother were developing clients, so that was some business development. Then what happened after that?
- Well, recession hit, which was always a fun thing. So we both had to go and do different work for a little bit. We were probably out of real estate for about four years, three or four years, and then we came back into real estate off of a blind ad. I got brought in to basically fix everything that was wrong with syndication. So basically I started off as kind of an admin, or I had to start off as an admin because I had to learn their systems from the ground up. Worked up, worked in their corporate office for probably about two, three years. And then just kind of got tired with the corporate life and wanted to get back out into the field.
- Is that now your client?
- That is one of my clients, yeah, is that real estate group.
- There was essentially a very seamless transition where you said, "Hey, I'm..." However you finessed that, "I'm leaving, I'm happy to take care of you. "Here's my deal to you. "Does that work for you?" Yeah, okay, great. Essentially, you're... For you... Well, take me back 2 1/2 years ago. You were playing with the Matterport camera, so you didn't have a business. Was that at this client that they bought one?
- As most real estate brokerages, or brokers, or managers, they go to a convention, they see something, they buy it and then they don't know what to do with it. So they had bought a Pro1 at a convention, came back with it, and they're like, "Hey, check out this really cool technology." Well, they told us this after it sat in a closet for a month or two collecting dust. Check out this cool technology. What can we do with it? We took it and we started scanning a couple properties with it.
- We meaning you and your brother?
- Yeah, me and my brother. And then we were doing some training with agents to see what their appetite was to have them just check out the camera or rent the camera and shoot it. And most agents didn't have the attention span or want to spend that much time shooting a Matterport tour. So then it sat for probably another year or so until I wrapped up with what I was doing at corporate. And I was like, "Let's put this thing to work." And before I jumped into that, I went out and I bought a couple Pro2's because I knew Pro2 was going to be better quality than the Pro1 they had had sitting. And then somewhere along the lines we picked up another Pro1.
- When you actually setup your business, on day one, you bought two Matterport Pro2 3D Cameras.
- Correct, because the quality is just night and day.
- So you felt that having a backup camera was that important.
- Okay, cool. Your largest client today still has, presumably, a Matterport Camera?
- And it's in some closet. You never run into them using it for any reason?
- No. As a matter of fact, I should probably confiscate it back from them and charge it just to keep it alive.
- Yes, I think it might be a problem if it hasn't been charged in a while. That, I imagine, does happen. That's interesting. And then... Both you and your brother were servicing this very large client with your agency. Then there was a challenge with the economy. Hey, happens to everybody. I reinvented myself, and here I am having a conversation with you having spent 20-plus years in television and entertainment marketing, and now returning to my love of photography and, being a bit geeky, ended up with this Matterport 3D/360 space. I kind of have some kindred spirits of understanding reinventing yourself. You and your brother, did he end up going to this company as well?
- Yep, he's actually the Director of Marketing for the Tomlinson group of companies. He's the Chief Marketing Officer, I guess, is his official title, of this company. And he's still with this company now.
- Is your brother your client?
- My brother is kind of a client. I work directly with the brokerages. I don't actually work directly with him unless we're working on a project together.
- So there's a difference between corporate and the individual brokerages, sorta, kinda?
- And he's at corporate, and you're working for the individual brokerages.
- How's that work? Sounds like you've got a... Does that work out okay?
- Yeah. We have no issues. We work well together. We cohabitate, so we kind of have to work well together.
- Okay, great. It's 24/7, somehow, someway, you and your brother are related in careers and what you're doing, et cetera. Somehow, someway.
- And we have complementing assets, or tools, or skillsets.
- Okay. So he stayed on, and then you went out on your own, and then you continued to work with that large... The brokerages under the umbrella of the corporation.
- Okay, cool.
- I think it's 14 offices under three different brands, and it's approximately 800 agents.
- Is your responsibility for 800 agents?
- I'm currently only servicing about 200 under this because I'm not all the way down into Boise. Because we do have some offices down in Boise and in Southern Idaho. We actually have a couple MSPs that we're working with down there, and then in Tri-Cities. We set them up with their own Matterport camera and own Matterport account.
- Are you getting 100% of the business that you possibly could from your client?
- No. That's not the case.
- And that's always going to be the case. You're never going to get 100% of everything.
- If you were someone who was just thinking about getting started with Matterport, what thoughts would you have for someone?
- First and foremost, you have to be out there belly to belly. If you're not out there connecting with the community, people do not know who you are, where you are, what you're doing. I mean, even today, having done this for a year, I still go to office meetings to remind agents that I'm still in business, I'm still doing this. Because if you're not doing that, you're not in business. So you really do have to get out into the community.
- You had somewhat of an advantage in that you worked inside a brokerage and then left the brokerage, and then are still working for the brokerage. If you're just starting out, how does... Let's say I'm a photographer. I'm a photographer, but I've never done work for real estate agents before. How do I get inside of a real estate brokerage?
- Your handicap is always going to be the front desk, so I would sweet talk that front desk to the best of my ability. You always have to just... I say the front desk just because that is going to be your key point of contact in any real estate office. So bring by plates of cookies, treats inside of whatever. Leave some business cards. But I would say ditto with the MLSs. Do a Google search of whatever area you're in, MLS or association of REALTORS, to find out what your association of REALTORS are. Ask them what you can do within... What the MLS is capable of doing, what's supported in that MLS, because no two MLS's are created equal. That's also one of my secret skills, is that my background was syndication so I know where everything can do. And I'm in no fewer than probably eight MLS's right now. Talk a little bit about syndication. You have this Matterport tour. Are you doing the backend of the syndication on behalf of your brokerage, or do you give the links to your real estate agent clients and then they populate MLS?
- I give it to the agents so they can put it in, but I actually have credentials to where I can go in and I can double check the homework to make sure that it has been done. Because if it doesn't get anywhere where it's supposed to be, the return on investment isn't going to be there. And if the ROI isn't there, they're not going to come back.
- So where is it supposed to be?
- Well, it's supposed to be in the MLS so that way other agents can see it. I always do the Realtor.com syndication from the Matterport through the app. But the important thing there is making sure that those addresses match up to what's in Realtor.com and what's in Matterport because if those addresses don't match up oftentimes that won't link.
- How often are the addresses different? Is it really subtle?
- It can be something as silly as they abbreviated lane instead of spelling it out, or abbreviated road instead of spelling it out. Maybe they forgot the South or the North and that can be enough to trip it up.
- Since I don't have credentials, how could I figure that out?
- Typically, if you waited until after it was in the MLS and you went in and double checked, so if you looked it up on Realtor.com and see what the address is in Realtor.com, then copy and paste that into Matterport.
- Got it. We've talked about two places for syndication, the local MLS, Realtor.com, presumably Homes.com is part of Realtor.com. That's three. Where else?
- The national brokerage. It's really easy with Sotheby's, Coldwell Banker, and Century 21, I think Better Homes & Gardens, there's a few of them that all ride underneath the Realogy brand, which all support Matterport natively on their national websites. So if you get the Matterport link into your corporate backend, they call it Dash, it will then ride along to most of their syndication partners. Each brokerage is going to have its different spider web of where they push the listing to, but...
- And is that something that the real estate agent would normally do?
- Typically they fill out the paperwork and then each office's staff would put that into that location.
- Is that something that you're double checking, or that you're populating yourself because you have the confidence level it'll get done?
- I, right now, am letting our staff do it at this particular time with these offices because I've trained the staff, so I know that they're getting it done probably 99.99% of the time. But I always do double check it because, at the end of the day, if it's not there they're just going to be calling me.
- I love this. It's the vendor that's training the client of how the client is supposed to be doing what they're supposed to be doing. Obviously you have very unique circumstances for a Matterport Service Provider business, having come from... Having worked at your client for many years. So you actually understand all the processes and procedures on the backend, perhaps better than those that are new agents with the company.
- Yep. We do some training seminars from time to time with the inside of our brokerages, or with the inside of our local MLS's as well. They'll actually call us and ask us, "Hey, can you train us on this?" Being willing to donate your time to come in and talk to people will go far as well.
- Have you ended up meeting new agents that weren't using you that now are using you?
- Yep. And they ... anybody who has any sort of iOS device, I get that Capture app. Oh! NOT Capture, the [3D] Showcase app, onto their device so that way they can play with the Matterport tour. Because this is the best way to experience a Matterport tour.
- The Matterport 3D Showcase app, which is free. Are you sending the Matterport ID to the agent, or are you literally saying, "Hey, give me your device. "I'm gonna put this or more tours on your device for you"?
- With onboarding with the inside of our Sotheby's office, so far this is the only one that we've started this program, is we actually set them up with the Showcase app if they have an iOS device. And then I setup a [Workshop] folder in the company account that is dedicated to them. And then we set that account up on their Showcase app and then all the tours go directly to their account.
- Got it. So you actually have the benefit of... It's a little bit, it's a lot a bit easier for you, it's a lot a bit easier for them since they have a Matterport account, by having that folder.
- Yeah, because we just set them up as a view-only collaborator so that they can't delete the tour. Or they can delete it off their device. They just can't delete it out of the account.
- Okay, great. So they don't have to think about it. It just automatically... They don't know why it works. It's just magic.
- It's magic.
- And you're in the background actually having made that happen. That's an interesting way to do that.
- But for clients, for the actual homeowner, I like to make sure that they have it as well so I'll send them instructions on how to get it onto their iOS device so if they're out and about traveling that they can actually show off their house as well.
- Is that cool with your agents?
- I guess that probably goes back, since you're not working on any other brokerages, they probably have a confidence level that if you're developing a relationship somehow by having contact with the homeowner that that's not going to result in, "Hey, I got a different brokerage to refer "the next time you sell your house." I don't know what it might be. Anyway, their confidence level is high with you, that they're comfortable that you do that and essentially you're helping the agent help sell the house by having the homeowner have the 3D model on their iPhone or iPad or desktop in order to be able to show to friends, family, whomever.
- Or when they're out traveling. Because a lot of my clients do a lot of travel. Or, a lot of my... My agent's clients do a lot of traveling.
- Actually, just to go back one second on pricing. The piece I don't quite understand. The brokerage does the deal with you in terms of the minimum, but it's the agents that are actually charged for the tour?
- It's the brokerage that charges the agent. It's not you sending a bill to the agent.
- Correct. I actually send in a bill to their corporate accounting department along with the MLS information, and then the agent doesn't get charged until the listing closes, expires, or is withdrawn. If they cancel the listing then they have to pay for it upon that time.
- It's not a deal that's subject to the house selling. No, they're still on the hook for it but at least they don't have the...
- Immediate out-of-pocket expense.
- The brokerage is helping them with the cash flow.
- Okay, so...
- Because most agents are cash poor when they take the listing.
- Then when it sells, then they have the money in the pocket to actually do all the proper marketing.
- Yes. Does that mean you're still in somewhat of a business development role because you really want the agents to take advantage of your services, because if they don't, the brokerage is going to reduce what that minimum commitment is?
- That's why I'm constantly on tour. It's like, I got to hit those offices. I got to be out there belly to belly reminding people that I'm in business.
- Ah. So if you're not out shooting, you're likely doing business development even though you have this commitment for X number of dollars from the brokerage.
- Yep. I'll stop in, I'll do one-on-one with agents and show them how the technology works if there's a new agent that doesn't quite get it. I don't mind spending that time because I know that's, at the end of the day, gonna be money in my pocket someday.
- So... Excuse me. How hard is business development for you?
- I don't mind it. I've always had a little bit of that training to where I like to show people how things work.
- This is using... It sounds like you're using the Matterport 3D Showcase app a lot in your conversations. Are these pretty short conversations?
- Once somebody has it, the number one question I get is, "Why doesn't it work on my Android?" Which I've talked to Matterport about, but part of that is that there's so many different flavors of Android that it's hard to develop for it. Not to mention the hardware requirements. I always tell agents, it's like, I'm not trying to change your political party or your sexual orientation. If you just get an iPad for $329 this is going to change your world.
- Yes. Yeah. And how many iPads have you sold?
- This year I've probably sold probably 15, 20 iPads.
- Yeah, that's great. Isn't that exciting?
- I didn't get paid for any of those.
- I understand, but the fact that they got it, if they want to be able to walk into a homeowner and say, "Hey, this is the part of [Your] marketing... "You select us, this is part of the marketing "we're going to do to help sell your house "for the the most money, with the most... "Most offers for the most money "with least amount of stress."
- And the shortest amount of time.
- Shortest amount of time. What else are you pitching when you tell them? What's your pitch?
- That ability to carry that inventory in your pocket. Pocket, purse, whatever. When you're out to dinner or you're at all these different community events that you're involved in, to be able to pull that out and say, "Oh, hey, I have this property "that you might be interested in." Or, "You were looking for something like this." Or to be able to hop in the car before heading out to Timbuktu, which could be an hour, hour and a half away, to go view a property, is this really what you're looking for? So you can start pre-qualifying those people before you're actually putting them in the car. And then once you start getting them through that they start understanding, like, "Oh, I can use this in a lot of different ways."
- But in terms of getting the listing, is that what you focus on?
- Yeah, I focus on being able to preview that property, time aside where, if you have the families that have a lot of small children, when you're taking that listing and shooting the photography that's as clean as that house is ever going to be. So getting in and shooting it, and capturing it in Matterport at that point in time, so rather than having to have the Mom or the Dad clean up the house for a showing that may or may not be in and out in five minutes because they don't like the house, it's like, let's walk through the house before we put that client through that.
- So I see this new major advertising campaign to encourage homeowners that are planning to sell their house in a couple years is to have kids, lots of kids, because the more kids they have the more motivated they're going to be to have a Matterport 3D tour shot. The We Get Around Network Forum Community needs to advocate for everyone to have more kids than they possibly need so that they'll definitely want to get a Matterport 3D tour from an agent that's offering that.
- Yep. I had one recently, two where it was their fur kids. And I was pushing around dog crates from room-to-room in order to shoot the tour.
- How much... How much... When you show up, what percent of your listings that you're shooting are you moving boxes, and adding light bulbs, and puffing up pillows?
- I'm typically not ever adding any light bulbs. I like to send out a little checklist before I show up saying, "Hey, this is a Matterport tour. "I can't Photoshop anything." Matterport tour is kind of what you see is what you get, so it's always nice to let them know. It's like, hey, it's gonna take about 45 minutes per hour. This is what we can and this is what we cannot do with the Matterport tour because you can't Photoshop something out, or change the colors, or lighten it up or darken it up. But as far as moving stuff around, I'll move something around if I have to. But I would say maybe only 10, 15% of properties that I show up to to where I really have to do that.
- You ever show up at one where you say, "I think I need to come back?" I mean, there was just nothing done.
- There's been a couple of those properties. I had one it would have been this last spring to where I showed up, and literally, it looked like they had thrown in a junk grenade in the house, and in the whole place. It was just stuff was everywhere. They were in the middle of remodeling, in the middle of packing. They were living in an RV in the driveway. And it's like, this house really isn't ready to go. But the agent's like, "Hey, shoot it as it is." It's like, okay. I'll shoot it and I'll bill you.
- Really, they still wanted to shoot it after you said this is...
- Yep. I took a couple snapshots with my cellphone, texted them over to him. It's like, "This is what it looks like."
- Woooowwww! So that's interesting. How often are you showing up to shoot a house and the client's not with you? Is that typical?
- Every once in a while I get one to where I get a home to myself. It's not very often because most of mine are either pretty high end to where I either have somebody there, whether it be the agent or the client. But very rarely, unless it's in my new construction, do I have the home to myself.
- Yeah. And the prices for residential real estate in your market are?
- For an entry-level, they're starting out at about $350. The most expensive one that I've shot here locally is $20 million. We do have some upper end properties here.
- That must be fun to shoot a $20 million property.
- Yeah. That one was interesting. I actually had to sign an NDA to even show up on site to shoot it. And that one isn't in syndication anywhere. They just use that for showing people who have signed an NDA to view the property.
- An NDA to view the property. So it's shown... How do you show it? Do you put it on a website with a password?
- It is out in the MLS where you can view the property but there's certain aspects of the home to where the homeowner doesn't want it shown unless they've shown their full financials and they're qualified to buy the home.
- Yeah, okay. Well, that might be the only way I'd get to see that property, is to shoot it.
- I'm married, but don't tell my wife I asked you this question. Do they have any eligible nice ladies that might be looking for a... ;-) Don't tell my wife! ;-)
- I wouldn't mind meeting one or two of those myself. Yeah, this one that I had shot was, I think, 18,000 square foot under roof. And that one I was there for the day.
- I shot a spa that I think was 18,500 square feet. I'm trying to think. I think the largest home I ever shot was 10,000 square feet. Do you have to have, like, 27 kids to have a house that's got that many kids, that much square footage?
- Well, this one had his and her master baths that were kind of joined together. The closets were as big as a typical house is, a typical bedroom would be. This is still under construction, mind you, so they're not finished with it yet. And when I walked into the master bedroom I thought it was a library, until I kept on walking and got into the master bathroom.
- That is so awesome. I mean, I... There's nothing like shooting an awesome space that you go, "Wow, this is really inspiring."
- This is how the other half live.
- The other half. Well, let me think. How many scans do I need to shoot today, this week, this month, and... And... Maybe I could pay him for a week's rent or something.
- Maybe I could stay in the garage for a couple nights.
- Are there vacation rentals for you, or is it typically houses for sale?
- I haven't done much in the way of vacation rental. I do have a lady that just left one of our brokerages that started up a vacation rental that I might be talking to just because I think that's another market that could be up and coming. It's just some of the third-party vacation rental sites are a little difficult in getting Matterport tours and whatnot in as well, or third-party links, because they don't like that sort of... It's the same reason why Zillow isn't really doing virtual tours or Matterport tours, and they like burying that because they don't want you leaving their site.
- Yeah. Well, separate and aside, I think they could still do Matterport. In my mind, the way Matterport would work, it would be just like Google Street View. Matterport publishes to Google Street View. If the content is now hosted by Google there isn't any reason Matterport--
- Or just like Realtor.com to where they turned that into the MLS compliant to where it's removing the contact information.
- I still think it's possible for Matterport and Zillow to play nice where it gets published to Zillow, and it's not a Matterport link, and it's not a Matterport experience as we think about it. It's still the Zillow 3D Home tour experience. Zillow's just taking the 360s and constructing their own tour, and hosting it themselves so it's not going to take them off the site. Anyway, separate and aside. I got to think that Matterport and Zillow...
- The technology's there.
- Yeah. At some point, somehow, someway, that that's going to happen. The home builder, are they having you scan when the house is framed, or when the house is done?
- I'm doing it pretty much at completion, typically. It may or may not still have blue tape in it because sometimes I'm showing up and the moving truck is backing into the driveway, just because it's a very short timeframe between when the house is finished and when the client's moving in.
- So your builder is using these tours not to sell that house, but to sell the next house that they get to build.
- Correct. What we're doing is we're building a library of their home plan lineup so that way it results in them having to build less specs. Now, do they still keep a certain amount of rolling specs going for shorter delivery times? But that way, if the market has a correction again they're not sitting on as many spec homes that may or may not have a buyer attached.
- Cool. So it's almost like that builder has their own app that is using Matterport 3D Showcase, presumably, to have all their portfolio. Are they at the point where they go, "Wow, Jeff, this is awesome. "We've been able to sell more houses, do less spec homes, "have less conversations about "what the house is going to look like," because they can walk through every one of the floor plans with Matterport?
- Or maybe you don't like this color package in this house. Well, we've shot another one with this house with the lighter colors or the darker colors, to where now we can walk you through both homes and you can actually walk through the home.
- Same home, different color pattern?
- Isn't that awesome? Wow. All right, cool. Before we wrap it up, excuse me, I should just ask, is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you would just love to share as someone that's a successful Matterport Service Provider business that's firing on all cylinders?
- Nope. I think if somebody's just starting out, I mean, pick up a camera whether it's a new to you camera, or a new camera, and just get out there and start getting belly-to-belly. Also make sure that you have a stack of business cards with you at all times because... I just keep them in an Altoids tin because that way, if they're in my pocket or my bag banging around, the cards don't get all banged up. And then the other thing that I keep with me at all times is booties. Being respectful of being in and out of people's homes. Typically I take my shoes off, but sometimes if you're in and out you kind of have to have your shoes on.
- I'm a huge advocate of those blue booties.
- They're next to nothing on Amazon, so...
- Can you tell that, even if the client has not said anything, that they're just so super appreciative that you're doing that?
- Yep. You typically know the home when you're pulling up in the driveway. And 99.99% of the homes that I'm shooting are those homes. And even a starter home. I mean, if it's a family with kids and dogs running through the home I'm still respectful, and I still take off my shoes or put on booties. Because once again, it's not my home.
- Yeah, awesome. Jeff, thanks so much for being on the show today.
- Hey, not a problem.
- Awesome. We've been visiting with Jeff Nitschke, formerly with the Green Bay Packers... or at least that's his second cousin that was formerly with the Green Bay Packers. Jeff is the Founder, the Chief Photographer, Photographer of Capture Northwest. Goes by Capture NW, website capturenw.com ... Serving North Idaho and Eastern Washington state. This has just been a fantastic discussion. I've learned so much just by visiting with you. I'm so thankful that you're in the We Get Around Network Forum [WGANForum.com]. You always have great content to share with others, and I think that just makes for, you know... Helping others through this path is a great...
- This journey.
- This journey. Again, I'm super thankful that you're a member of the We Get Around Network Forum community.
- And now that things are slowing down, I might see if I can't put together some sort of video on syndication and a little bit on the backend of what's going on in real estate for other people that might be able to get some nuggets out of that.
- That would be awesome. And if you want to come back and do a separate show on those two topics, that's even awesome as well. I always think, when you give, you just, somehow you get back.
- You always get way more back than what you gave.
- Yeah. I just think that's great. For our viewers, if you're curious what the same property looks like shot with a Matterport Pro1 3D Camera, a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera, a RICOH Theta V, a RICOH Theta Z1, an Insta360 One X, Jeff has done all the legwork. He's shot those properties, and he's been super kind to post them in the We Get Around Network Forum.
- And I'm waiting on my beta. I'm waiting on my beta for the iPhone/iPad Capture, and then I'm going to shoot that space with that as well once I've got that.
- Awesome. Jeff's alluding to the, Matterport has announced but not yet released, scheduled for first quarter of 2020, the ability to capture a 3D space using an iPhone without any additional hardware.
- That's very cool. Hey, thanks, all, for tuning in. If you're watching this on our YouTube channel or elsewhere, come join us in the We Get Around Network Forum. WeGetAroundNetworkForum.com, or WGANForum.com. Love to have you join the conversation. It's totally free. In fact, you can join the Forum and you'll get 50-plus membership benefits just for joining. How crazy is that? Jeff, thanks again. I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum, and you've been watching WGAN-TV Live at 5.
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