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Adviceproblem

Customer NOT Happy AT ALL With Tour.4889

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3dVuz private msg quote post Address this user
Hey All.

This is my FIRST post asking for advice, and I hope I get some constructive advice...

I was contacted by an artist in NYC who was having an exhibition of her sculptures at a very prestigious Art Center. As we had just shot for Christies in NYC, for another art exhibit, I sent her the link and we agreed on a price for the job. In addition to the scanning, I told her that we would use Mattertags for each piece, and link back to her site, which had a page for each sculpture. Two separate galleries, in the same building. All the sculptures were on pedestals along the walls. I shot each sculpture 3-4 times... It took nearly 4 hours to shoot everything, (I had numerous delays waiting for visitors to move away... etc.)

In any event, after working for 4 MORE hours linking, tagging and making the single property websites... I was VERY happy with the results.

I was then told that she HATED the WHOLE THING. Cannot use it. WONT use it. She said the lighting was terrible (her exhibit) and I should have known to STOP WORKING. I explained that the tour was designed to show the entire SPACE... that the tour would be amazing for people who wanted to come in person, but could see the space as if they were there. Each link went back to her high def DSLR pics....

AND.. they are not paying.

I am being civil, and have explained my position. I offered to reshoot, or to possibly offer some discount but I expect payment. I'm from Brooklyn...

Have you ever had a similar situation? If this is a realtor and one of their listings, its a different story.. I want to do the right thing, AND stay out of jail. (LOL)

It sounds like he expected each piece to be viewable similar to our dollhouse views... the sculpture would be spinning on an axis of some sort.

here are links to the tours.

clickable text

clickable text
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HarlanHambright private msg quote post Address this user
Looks good to me. Lighting is fine. Sculpture is marginal. She owes you $. I would have been a tad lower and a tad further away from the pieces so they filled the screen vertically and straight on, but that's probably not a variable she knows about.
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lisahinson private msg quote post Address this user
@3dVuz I thoroughly enjoyed the exhibition! Would have liked it more it the mattertags didn't cause you to restart the tour but rather retuned you where you left off (a personal preference)

I had a situation early on where a realtor wasn't paying for a tour but linked to it in MLS. I wish I'd handled it differently - the realtor LOVED the tour but for whatever reason wasn't paying - I wish I'd just made the tour private or removed it and moved on but hindsight is 20/20 and every situation is different. My 2 cents.
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nat_vanveen private msg quote post Address this user
@3dVuz Did you get the client to sign an agreement, contract, email that states she accepted your terms and conditions for the job? If so, send her an email highlighting the terms of acceptance and a request/demand that she pay. keep following that up... every 2 weeks, at first using 'request' and then after 30/60 days make that a demand.

From an artist point of view, it's not YOU lol... it's the artist or her event manager... That room that she had her gig in is plain UGLY and nothing is going to look stunning against those walls and with that poor lighting... she must have seen the room beforehand so it's her fault for choosing the wrong venue... plus why did she place the sculptures so close against the walls??? Design gallery 101 no one does that, it's not a museum..

If I were you I would point out that you did exactly as she asked and point out that if anything her poor choice of venue, unflattering wall color and lighting would be more of a turn-off than your technical ability...

You tour and page look great, good luck.
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craigsauer private msg quote post Address this user
My advice is to let it go. Dan mentioned in another post recently that he doesn't even invoice a client until they are happy with the tour. I'm not quite that extreme, as I send an invoice to be due the day the scan is done. But I always tell clients that I don't expect to be paid if they are not happy with the result.

It is VERY unfortunate that you had this experience with a job of this magnitude.

I just went and looked at your tour, and I'm really impressed and surprised your client wasn't happy.

I did a similar job a couple years ago, and I was surprised when I got the tour back to realize that it is quite different looking at sculpture in a Matterport tour vs being there in person. Sculpture is really a 3D medium, and Matterport isn't 3D at close range. The dollhouse is 3D, but objects inside it aren't. And I could see how a sculptor would be disappointed to find that the sculptures weren't shown in 3D.

Though it sounds like you showed the sculptor a sample of another show, so they should have been adequately prepared for the experience. But maybe it seemed fine when looking at somebody else's show, but for a sculptor to see their own work NOT in 3D could be very disappointing.

But it is really crappy of the sculptor to not pay, when you delivered exactly what you promised, especially given that you shared other examples of your work.

But I would recommend for anyone considering doing Matterport tours focusing on sculpture to consider and discuss the 3D issue with your client before you do the job.
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nat_vanveen private msg quote post Address this user
@craigsauer that's a very good point about the sculptures not being in 3D
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hometakes private msg quote post Address this user
Agreement, Agreement Agreement! Did I say agreement? You betacha. I just posted under Dans post about getting paid too. If they are not willing to sign an agreement, then NEVER do business with them. You put your car into the dealer for service, you sign an agreement. You won't get that car back until you pay your bill.

Durys are subjective right? One set could find someone Guilty and another Not Guilty. Its like telling your lawyer you want your money back as the jury found you Guilty and he didn't do a good enough job. Did she see other samples so she knew what to expect? If not, thats a mistake right there. In an agreement, you set standards and expectations with samples as a comparison. If met, they pay. If not, then re-shoot to correct to your sample standards.

Agreement, Agreement, Agreement. Not sure if you have lien rights in New York the same as Florida but here, if you go inside a building and do any kind of work and don't get paid, you lien the property (Even if its just leased to them). The burden is on them and they have to take you to court to argue why the lien should be removed. When they realize that they have to pay an attorney to do this, they will pay up. Actually, its even better if the building is leased, as you should send a copy to the landlord. Believe me, the Landlord will ensure that they pay up.
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mwills private msg quote post Address this user
@3dvuz New here, been lurking for quite a while. I am not a Matterport photographer, or a professional photographer. I am a dev (as in programming) and interested in the 3D tour tech. I really enjoy Matterport tours. The way it blends the 3d during the transitions is so unique. I am wondering if that's the issue.

I saw the new gallery tours, and it is actually looks really nicely done, capturing the space as it would be if I were there. It's what I expected. This was the first time I have seen a sculpture related tour. So "What are they expecting?"

Googling a bit… Is this the Christie's tour?

http://www.christies.com/features/An-interactive-tour-of-our-Out-of-the-Ordinary-sale-7608-3.aspx

(Let me know if that is not OK to post!)

When I first when to the Christie tour, I clicked around, and saw what I pretty much expected. Not that I have a seasoned eye, but very well done!

One thing I, oddly, never did before was hit the play button.

Which I did.

Then it hit me.

As @nat_vanzeen noted, (and not something I ever thought about before) don't put sculptures on the wall since it's not a museum. In the Christie tour, the pieces were well placed. Something as simple as that massive fork, when I first landed on the tour, it was "ok neat". But when I hit play and the Matterport 3D objects were added during the transitions, or the pieces that were closer to the wall but still away from the wall, you still got that 3D transition effect. As the tour drove through it was so much more immersive, if I am understanding correctly, simply because of where everything is.

Now on my screen, when viewing the new tours, I actually couldn't get to the play button. I didn't scroll down but hit play right away. The full width tour took over, as expected, but because of the banner at the top, I couldn't get to the controls below. I actually tweaked the CSS first (Chrome dev tools) to remove the nav at the top. Later I realized there _is_ more below the fold but I had to scroll before hitting play.

Once I did hit play (and I hope they did) it made sense that the sculpture placement made the difference. I am new to this though!

If they played the curated Christie tour, they saw that 3D effect. Did they stop the tour and view a piece individually to see you can't spin around the object? Maybe not?

Random thought follows:

Didn't @metroplex360 (I think) of Matterapps have something about embedding content within a Matterport presentation? You did such a thorough job in shooting everything it's almost like you have enough to create a rotated view _around_ each piece, like if you could drive a virtual camera in an arc around each object and render that out. Is Matterport's depth fine enough to interpolate those positions? I suspect not… just wondering.
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nat_vanveen private msg quote post Address this user
@mwills very interesting insights thanks!
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Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user
@3dvuz I'm so sorry to hear about your negative client experience. As the photography is your copyrighted work, I would suggest using the tour to promote yourself. I see you have also invested the money in buying custom domain names. You know... I need to write an extension for WP3D Models that would allow people to add comments to a tour... you could have all of us write comments on how amazing the tour is and how amazing the artist is as a passive aggressive way to prove a point Ross has such a large userbase that adding this sort of feature would instantly enable comments on SO MANY tours...

Anyway, I'm off topic. I'm really really sorry about what happened to you. The client has really put you in a terrible position. Some people do contracts to protect themselves -- but some people like myself, blindly have a "pay on satisfaction" policy -- largely because we believe that people are inherently good and will love Matterport technology. It's wonderful to operate this way and clients like this one complicate the joy of trust and being able to move forward without pushing contracts and other silly things. I am so disappointed for you.

-

@mwills I made a way to use MatterTag Links to embed videos and images into MatterTags -- essentially a prototype proof-of-concept version of what Matterport ultimately created and released to us.
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JC3DCX private msg quote post Address this user
I have had a similar experience with a client, she was unhappy with a scan point in the Model and I rectified it, then unhappy about something else and everytime another problem. Then told the client 2 options, you pay and use the model or I make it private and revoke access.

It was a B&B and I could see it was being viewed, so she had the "use" of the model at my expense. 30 days of views and no payment = free advertising.

Now if she wants the tour she pays or gets another provider.

You will always get those clients who demand a million dollar picture perfect result and not willing to pay.

I also believe the client should not pay if not satisfied with the model, but then they should also not use it if not satisfied.
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StevenHattan private msg quote post Address this user
I had a Realtor once decide they didn't like the tour I did...said they weren't paying. So, I only enabled a single scan and made a note as the headline.

I showed the model to the client and listed off three Ethics Violations that he would now be facing....all for $80 (this was a 'free scan' I did all throughout 2016).

Of course, his broker called and threatened, yelled blah blah. I politely laughed out loud (yes, politely) and let him know I was also a Realtor for 20 years and there is absolutely no defense and told him to [redacted] off.

Here is what they could be upset about.

https://perfectview3d.com/3d-model/2479-bauer/fullscreen/
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nat_vanveen private msg quote post Address this user
@StevenHattan LOL
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hometakes private msg quote post Address this user
@stevenhattan So what did you really think about him? LOL
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StevenHattan private msg quote post Address this user
Vuz...you could have a lot of fun with this one. Make up stupid and funny [redacted] about the pieces of art and thank her for the opportunity that has presented itself.

Since it's not HER model but YOURS you could easily turn this into an advantage of an example to show when people decide they do not want to pay (it's all in the presentation).

I have certainly used this as an example on a few occasions. Interestingly, this was the absolute LAST person that didn't pay me.

http://NYCamateurArt is available. hahaha
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AndrewWilliam23 private msg quote post Address this user
That's pretty funny Steven. They deserved it. I managed 1,100 bookstores for 15 years scatted over 20 countries for a publisher - I put them all (except a handful) on COD - as I really didn't want to get into non payment issues. I had few problems with this as I offered fantastic customer service and the products sold well.

Here is what they could be upset about.

https://perfectview3d.com/3d-model/2479-bauer/fullscreen/
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3dVuz private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you to all who replied.. (Steve we gotta get lunch sometime!)

Here is the link to the Christies shoot that she asked to see:

http://www.christies.com/features/An-interactive-tour-of-our-Design-sale-in-New-York-8374-3.aspx?sc_lang=en
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